Am 15.04.2015 um 10:48 schrieb Greg Kroah-Hartman: > On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 08:54:07AM +0200, Richard Weinberger wrote: >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 3:36 AM, Andy Lutomirski <l...@amacapital.net> wrote: >>>> We had been there before. To paraphrase another... meticulously honorable >>>> person, "if you didn't want something relied upon, why have you put it >>>> into the >>>> kernel?" Said person is on the record as having no problem whatsoever with >>>> adding dependencies to the bottom of userland stack. >>> >>> It appears that, if kdbus is merged, upstream udev may end up requiring it: >>> >>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May/019657.html >> >> Why so surprised? >> kdbus will be a major hard-dependency for every non-trivial userland. >> Like cgroups... > > Maybe because things like cgroups, and kdbus in the future, solves a > need that the developers in that area have to solve problems and > provide functionality that their users require?
I agree that a high level bus is needed and dbus is not perfect. But this does not mean that we need a in-kernel dbus in any case. > Look, us kernel developers only work on one huge, multithreaded, global > state binary. Our experience in multi-application interactions with > shared state and permission requirements is usually quite limited. If > you don't trust the developers of those programs outside the kernel, > don't use them, there are still distros out there that don't require > them. We're all forced to use cgroups, systemd, udev unless we want to have busybox as userland. That's a fact. systemd and its dependencies are not a bad thing per se. But we have to be very sure that new hard-dependencies are in well shape before we push them into the kernel. IMHO this is also Andy and Eris's point. Thanks, //richard -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
