Linux-Misc Digest #341, Volume #19 Sun, 7 Mar 99 00:13:09 EST
Contents:
Re: Should IBM port Visual Age for Java to Linux? (Axel Liljencrantz)
Re: Can Linux use 36-bit Xeon addressing? ("David A. Frantz")
2nd try: ppp problem, non-trivial, non-FAQ (long) (Mircea)
Re: Just installed Redhat 5.2 (Matt Hughes)
Re: Microkernels are an abstraction inversion (Rickard Westman)
Re: xwindows (David Kirkpatrick)
Re: 2nd try: ppp problem, non-trivial, non-FAQ (long) (Mircea)
Re: Can Linux use 36-bit Xeon addressing? ("David A. Frantz")
Re: Can Linux use 36-bit Xeon addressing? ("David A. Frantz")
Re: best offline newsreader? (a sidetrack) (Man Wei Tam)
Re: BEST HW For Linux NoteBook Project ("David A. Frantz")
Re: More bad news for NT (jedi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Axel Liljencrantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Should IBM port Visual Age for Java to Linux?
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 02:56:03 +0100
Navindra Umanee wrote:
> Shyam Govardhan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have been playing with DB2 on my Linux machine for a while now and I
> > am very impressed with it. I think that it would be really good if IBM
> > could port Visual Age for Java to Linux. If this were to happen, then
> > the Linux community would obtain a sophisticated IDE for JAVA and I also
> >
> > think that it would increase the popularity of DB2 on Linux.
> >
> > This is my opinion... What do you all think?
>
> I don't think anyone really cares. Those IDEs are too complicated!
>
> -N.
> --
> "These download files are in Microsoft Word 6.0 format. After unzipping,
> these files can be viewed in any text editor, including all versions of
> Microsoft Word, WordPad, and Microsoft Word Viewer." [Microsoft website]
> < http://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~navindra/editors/ >
Whether to use an IDE like Visual Age, or just stick with ol' emacs or vi is
an open question, some preferr it this way, others that way.
Personally i love emacs, but hey, it's a free world!
/Axel Liljencrantz
------------------------------
From: "David A. Frantz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Can Linux use 36-bit Xeon addressing?
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 23:14:43 -0500
Johan;
Johan Kullstam wrote in message ...
>"David A. Frantz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Hi Johan;
>>
>>
>> Johan Kullstam wrote in message ...
>> >if you want *identical* results, most of the problem is the
>> >bletcherous 80 bit float mode of the x86. are you using gcc/g77? you
>> >are aware that they spill the 80 bit registers into 64 temporaries.
>> >thus small changes in the code or fiddling with optimization switches
>> >can cause spillage in different places and hence small changes in the
>> >results.
>>
>> 80 bit floats are not a bad thing, it is bad for a compiler not to use
them
>> correctly.
>
>well, one of the problems is the intel memory model will punish you
>hard for using 10 byte variables. they do not fit cleanly on 8 byte
>boundaries.
It is the programmers responsibility to select the correct representation
for his data. Some times 80 bit values cna be a solution to a problem.
But you are right they don't fit into anbodies arch. well.
>
>> >intel should simply be avoided for any serious numerical work.
>>
>> Hmm thats down right mean. Intel should be avioded when it does fit
the
>> application domain. What you might want to say is that Intel is not a
>> cost effective way to do serious FP work. Even a farm of Intel
machines
>> are questionable for some applications.
>
>maybe. it's just that the intel x86 suffers from a number of
>problems. the register starvation of the integer side is another
>hindrance.
This is the whole problem with Intel they never seem to grasp the need for
programmer accessible registers. Wether FP or integer, I386 is a little
thin, but for some applications the performance can be OK.
>
>i've used many intel chips over a number of years. i am not impressed
>with the architechture. they are innexpensive and ubiquitous. the
>performance is reasonably good, since intel has a lot of money they
>can throw at improving it.
Actually they really haven't been doing all that well at improving I386.
AMD has far fewer resources and is able to be very competitive so one would
have to wonder where all of Intels money is going. The reality is that
they are slipping technology wise, they don't even have a process to compete
with IBM-Motorolas copper processes.
>
>--
> J o h a n K u l l s t a m
> [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Don't Fear the Penguin!
------------------------------
From: Mircea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 2nd try: ppp problem, non-trivial, non-FAQ (long)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 20:56:37 -0500
Hi-
I have posted this to comp.sys.linux.setup a couple of weeks ago. I'm
trying again here, since I still haven't got around it. Sorry for the
repost, if anyone's offended. All help will be greatly appreciated.
Please respond to my e-mail address :)
MST
OK, here it goes:
Hello-
I've been happily running Slackware 3.6 for some time now, and I'm
extremely pleased with it. Recently I decided I should give other
flavors of Linux a try, so I started with Debian 2.0. Everything else is
fine, except for a little annoying thingie I'd very much like to get rid
of.
I establish the ppp connection just as usual ( I use ezppp v1.0beta9),
and can surf the web & do all the cool things related to it :), but when
I try to go on usenet, of course, the first thing you're supposed to do,
after telling your newsreader the name of the server, is retrieve the
list of newsgroups available. Well, no matter what newsreader I use on
Debian (either the one built in Netscape, or knews, etc.), it stalls
after having retrieved about 140k, and wouldn't go any further, no
matter what I do. The most annoying part is, after this happens, _all_
of the ppp connection seems not to work any more, although I don't get
any error message at all, I simply cannot access the web any more. I
can't even telnet to my other mail server :( The only way to overcome
it is to kill the connection and dial again.
Note that if I don't try to read the news, the connection is perfect for
hours and hours.
This doesn't happen in Slackware (since you're reading this). I've
checked the relevant config files (/etc/hosts, /etc/hosts.conf,
/etc/resolv.conf, /etc/hosts.deny), and all seems OK. I use, of course,
the same dial-in provider for both, and exactly the same settings for
the ppp connections on the two distributions (for cause of laziness, I
just copied the pppscript and pap-secrets from Slackware into Debian).
Both distributions run the 2.2.1 kernel, with libc5.4.46 and libc6 2.0.7
Am I missing something obvious? All help will be greatly
appreciated.
Please reply by e-mail :) Thanks!
MST
------------------------------
From: Matt Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just installed Redhat 5.2
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 04:14:53 GMT
For the last question, Linux does support IPX, but I think that it's a kernel
module. I haven't used IPX that much, but I'll point you to the IPX HOW-TO at
sunsite:
http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO/IPX-HOWTO.html
For you sound, you may have to build a special kernel. But don't worry, it's
not really that hard. Check out the kernel HOW-TO and the sound HOW-TO at
http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP and you should be able to find some answers.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have 2 questions.(so far)
>
> Actually 3, but I think I may have an answer to my lilo problem. I'll post a
> messag if wrong.
>
> Linux can't detect my sound card. I use sndconfig, its PnP but isnt
> detected, and when I set up manually I get device or resource busy. My sound
> card came built onto my motherboard(I didn't ask for it, but I got it). When
> I boot, pnp lists it as CMI8330. Windows has it listed as 2 sound drivers.
> WSS, with Input/Output of 0530-0537 and 0388-038F, IRQ of 11, and DMA of 00.
> SB16, with Input/Output of 0220-022F, IRQs of 05 and 01, and DMA of 05 Is
> there a "quick" fix to this, or a hard one. Do I have to make a custom
> kernel? If so, how much different is a linux kernel than a bsd?
>
> My college uses Novell's border manager(IPX), patched into the dorms via 3Com
> 3c509b. Is there a way to connect with linux, or am i stuck with windows?
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
--
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Matt Hughes
//
// 2nd year Student,
// Faculty of Engineering,
// University of Calgary
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// C code. C code run. Run code run!
//
// Math and alcohol don't mix.
// Stay alive, don't drink and derive.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rickard Westman)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microkernels are an abstraction inversion
Date: 3 Mar 1999 14:37:37 GMT
In article <7bi2l6$evg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Roger Espel Llima wrote:
>People have probably done that with every conceivable kind of language,
>from assembler through FORTH to pure ML. That doesn't mean I actually
>*want* to organize most of my problems in the ways that these languages
>provide.
>
>For most of my programming needs, give me a well-designed,
>very-high-level, *procedural* language, and I'll be happy. Of those
>I've tried, Perl is the closest I've found to what my dream language
>would be. But it's not quite it either.
Then you should be happy with ML, since it can be used as a
well-designed, very-high-level, procedural language.
--
Rickard Westman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | "Beware of the panacea peddlers: Just
| because you wind up naked doesn't
| make you an emperor."
---+ - Michael A Padlipsky
------------------------------
From: David Kirkpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: xwindows
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 20:58:41 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Depending on your version of Linux different things happen on
startup. Possibly the startup file in the root directory are not
the same as in the user directory (non-root user). So the
startup is different. There is probably a .something file in the
user directory thats not in the admin home dir. Look for things
like .Xinitrc .Xsessions .Xclients .wm_style etc RedHat 5.2.
Below is a file which is how RH 5.2 starts up. Whatever your
version is it will be somewhat simmilar so you can use it as a
guide to figuring out whats happening on your system. Use this
file along with looking at the . files in both the home
directories you mentioned to see what the differences are.
General: what happens after startx
Startx in /usr/X11R6/bin is a script which can be looked at.
It looks for user defined .xinitrc and .xserverrc files in your
home dir. If none are found it will use system default files.
It starts xinit with arguments that are pointers to these files.
Xinit starts xinitrc in /usr/X11/xinit which is also a
script. It also looks for user and system .Xresources, .Xmodmap
and .Xclient files in your home and system dirs and when done
calls /etc/X11/xinit/Xclient with Xclient or if no Xclient was
found executed some apps like xterm,
xclick and then starts either fvwm or twm window manager.
An Xclient will most likely be found so Xclient will be run.
Xclients does more of the same looking for what files are around
expecially .wm_style which can have what window manager you want
to start. Xclients looks for .wm_style. If its not found it
will try to start fvwm or twm.
If .wm_style has a window manager choice in there then Xclient
starts /etc/X11R6/bin/RunWM - actually a link is called but it
gets finally to RunWM. This is also a script which can be looked
at. If you have choosen to run Fvwm95 then it will have that
choice passed in as an
argument and setup a few things.
Depending on your choice of window managers passed in RunWM
will call a window manager startup function for your choice of
window managers.
For RedHat and and a choice of Fvwm95 the start functions kicks
off /etc/X11/AnotherLevel/fvwm2rc.m4. This script looks at the
other configuration scripts in that directory and sets up your
environment for fvwm95. Its confusing but orderly. For these
startup file and all the others mentioned above you can put
echo's and some text in each file and direct the output with >>
to /homedir/startingx to see what took place during startup.
For more startup information see .FVWM.errors in your home dir
and /tmp/fvwm... also for redirected output from the fvwm2
scripts.
===============
Note: for modifying your desktop quite a bit is done in
/etc/X11/Another
Level/decors for both FVWM95 and MWM.
Davidk
"ô_ô" wrote:
>
> Why wont my xwindows start when I logon as admin, but works when I logon as
> other.
> Damn!....this linux stuff is complicated.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Mircea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 2nd try: ppp problem, non-trivial, non-FAQ (long)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 21:01:33 -0500
Sorry for the anti-spam measures in my reply address, here's the
unprotected one in the header :)
MST
------------------------------
From: "David A. Frantz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Can Linux use 36-bit Xeon addressing?
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 23:22:41 -0500
Johan Kullstam wrote in message ...
>Robert Krawitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> "David A. Frantz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> > I think you hit on one problem at the very least and that is if you
want to
>> > get away from I386 you have only one other mass produced platform and
that
>> > is Apples Mac. When dealling with software I do not think binary
>> > compatablity is s big deal for Linux users. After all if you want to
run
>> > something you can just recompile it.
>>
>> For better or for worse, the latter statement is not true, and it's
>> becoming less and less true. If your goal is to run Oracle, Informix,
>> DB/2, Sybase, or what have you, binary compatibility is essential.
>
>true. but to exploit a 36 bit address space in order to use more than
>4 GB on a xeon, would require recompiling those applications. so your
>program falls into two buckets:
>
>1) something which you can port or find a port of for linux alpha or
> sparc solaris &c.
>
>2) something which exists only in binary format on i386 linux.
>
>now in case 1, you can use the 64 bit processor. in case 2, you
>can't, but neither can you exploit over 4 GB.
>
>therefore, there is no point in trying to make a far pointer memory
>model for linux on the x86. should you need big memory, just use
>a 64 bit platform.
Clearly Stated! pick the processor that fits the application and
everything becomes much simpler.
>
>--
> J o h a n K u l l s t a m
> [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Don't Fear the Penguin!
------------------------------
From: "David A. Frantz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Can Linux use 36-bit Xeon addressing?
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 23:30:58 -0500
Hi Robert;
Robert Krawitz wrote in message ...
>Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Robert Krawitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> > That interpretation is simply incorrect. Virtual addresses (which are
>> > the only kind that normal instructions ever deal with in protected
>> > mode) are 32 bits wide, just as in all x86 processors from the 80386
>> > on up. The processor (in hardware, by referring to the page tables)
>> > translates these virtual addresses into physical memory addresses.
>> > It's immaterial how wide the physical address bus is. The physical
>> > address bus could be 20 bits wide (not that I'd care to use such a
>> > machine), or 32 bits wide, or 40 bits wide. The kernel sets up the
>> > mapping between virtual addresses and physical memory; the processor
>> > actually performs the mapping in hardware, and the user code never
>> > knows the difference.
>>
>> riddle me this, how can i have more than 4 GB of data accessible from
>> one program?
>
>You can't (via direct memory addressing), but suppose I want to have
>several dozen memory-hungry processes all running concurrently? This
>is not normally the case for desktop systems, and is seldom a problem
>for http servers and such, but for heavy commercial data processing,
>with parallel databases, it's a perfectly normal state of affairs.
>Folks, the issue is not the single-process VM limit, it's the total
>amount of memory available to all processes in the system!
Actually I thought the whole discussion was about single process
limitations. Even if thats not the case if you need to address a large
amount of RAM, more ram that can be accessed on a 32 bit address bus then
you might as well progress to 64bits. Trying to support 36 bits of
addressable RAM for a large number of 32 bit processes is a waste of time,
MANY other solutions exist. 36bit addressing is a solution for a
marketing department that doesn't have a real competitve solution.
Dave
>
>--
>Robert Krawitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.tiac.net/users/rlk/
>
>Tall Clubs International -- http://www.tall.org/ or 1-888-IM-TALL-2
>Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
>--Eric Crampton
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Man Wei Tam)
Subject: Re: best offline newsreader? (a sidetrack)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 18:23:14 -0600
Firstly, I've paid my dues to both Unix,Macs and Windows over the last 10
years or so and I realised the importance of USENET since I discovered it
and consequently set about to find the 'best' newsreader for whatever
platform I was currently using.
For Unix it was no problem since there really isn't that much choice
running in a terminal -- it was either the rn family or the nn family; I
chose the former and currently use trn. I never used any of the X clients
for long because they were all pretty awful.
On the Mac (remember those people -- it's not just a Unix vs Windows
world anymore you know :-0) after much searching I chose vrn which is a
really nice multi-threaded newsreader with fantastic ability which I
haven't seen since to group my newsgroups into separate windows that I
could easily switch between and it was multi-threaded and I was very
satisfied with it.
On the PC it took a little longer to find a newsreader and I finally
chose the most execellently produced Gravity newsreader from MicroPlanet.
Unfortunately it was commercial but it was very inexpensive. Apart from
not having the newsgroup grouping ability it is by far the best
newsreader I have ever used -- I'm using this now for this posting.
I'm lucky enough to have a Windows 98 machine, an NT machine and a Linux
machine at home. I use Linux for those tasks that I can find good
software for that runs under Linux and similarly for Windows. That's why
I prefer to use Linux for developing software for unix, NT for windows
development and I prefer to use Windows for reading news and mail (I
don't use Macs any more but that may change w/ MacOS X). I browse on both
machines, prefering IE under Windows and Netscape under Linux. At the
office where we are mostly NT I connect to the unix boxes using the
Exceeed X Server.
I'm in this situation because there is GOOD software for both machines
with features and ideas that haven't yet made it to the other. I refuse
to use inferior software just because it is running on a particular
platform and I see many postings just like this one which attack the
other operating system.
I also realise that most people probably do not have that much experience
in the other OSes or they do not have the time, interest or reason to be
fully informed. But that's why we have flamewars so that's not
necessarily a bad thing :-).
Anyway to answer the question: check out www.freshmeat.com and
www.linuxberg.com for off-line newsreaders. I actually thing all the X
ones suck so I suppose you would be stuck using a console app such as
trn.
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>Here in comp.os.linux.misc, "Richard Latimer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>spake unto us, saying:
>>I think you are right. There is a great deal of difference in what
>>100-200 million Windows users take for granted and what Unix users
>>assume cuts the mustard.
>Most of the Windows users I know who use Usenet's technical newsgroups
>tend to use text when posting. Is that not the same for you?
That's not a totally fair argument - you qualify that text users are
those technical users but there is are several hierarchies with
'binaries' in them from multimedia to programs to ROMs. I would say (from
the USENET stats) there are probably just as any (if not more) casual
users that use USENET just for binaries. So rsteiner is correct -- Unix
users seem to not mind having to join together pieces of a binary and
uudecode them -- this is either acceptable to them or they have no choice
because no-one has implemented anything better.
>>It's as if the unix community has been locked in the closet with the
>>server for twenty years.
>I believe that it's better to use inexpensive, stable, flexible, and
>OPEN technology on my desktop than to use expensive, nondeterministic,
>inflexible fluff like Microsoft markets to the public.
I think that all the Linux bigots should realise that Microsoft isn't the
ONLY company producing software in this world and there are some very
well designed pieces of software from some very capable programmers for
ALL the platforms out there.
Firstly, Linux software isn't necessarily stable -- Netscape crashes on
my machine much more often under BOTH Windows and Linux than IE ever
does. And now I have to find out if I have the wrong libc on my machine -
err, what? Yes, there may be problems with some very low level library
that may cause problems with other software -- don't see much of that any
more under Windows.
Oh yeah, now I want to be able to use the Intellimouse functionality
under Linux - now I have to see if it's possible, yes it is (but it's
version 0.9.5; should I wait until we get a non-alpha or non-beta
release; OK, I'll risk it, bugs notwithstanding), now I download it,
compile it, mess with my XF86Config and the .imwheelrc files and
possibly some X resource files and hope it'll work. I have an
Intellimouse under windows - install the driver and it works. And it
works for all applications, configuration is via a control-panel
accessible in the standard place and it took very little time. OK, it's
not quite as flexible or configurable as the Linux-Way but I'm not
interested in the solution-space that I have available under Linux, I
just want my wheel to work!
So despite Linux's apparently flexibility and configurability, which I
love btw, sometimes I just want to get the job done without too much
brain work -- and I'm not a non-technical user by any definition of the
word.
>>From the discussions that take place in these newsgroups, it
>>seems that the average unix user hasn't any idea what can be
>>done with Windows desktop software.
>I use both Windows NT and Windows 95 here as well as several other
>operating systems, thank you. But I have my own preferences, and
>IMSNShO non-textual material has no business whatsoever being posted
>on Usenet. Period.
I would respect anyone's opinion but you don't sound too informed if you
think that Microsoft is the only company providing any worthwhile s/w!
As for not posting binaries -- the world is changing all the time
and people will always use a new communication method to its fullest.
That's the cool thing about being human; we push things as far as they go
and if it breaks something we fix it (by implementing new groups and/or
a charter) or we change it (with USENET II or adding more bandwith) or we
avoid it (by kiling rogue postings as soon as possible).
I have to take exception with statements such as "no business
whatsoever"; it's an interesting stance to take and I'd love to see your
reasons behind it but I'm not aware of a USENET charter that disallows or
even disapproves it - each group has the ability to mandate what should
be posted and rule-breakers are slapped accordingly.
Neither am I aware of any technical reason why it shouldn't be
done - it's working isn't it? And it's not preventing you from reading
those groups you really are using and you don't even have to be aware of
them once you have your favourite groups set up. And there is much more
www traffic than USENET traffic. And if you're reading offline you can
also choose to disregard those grooups. So where's the problem?
>If you want pretty sounds and images, go play on the web.
If two humans want to communicate they will find a way to do it. I can't
see anything wrong with that. Those people without a live connection to
the internet can only communicate via usenet and/or mail. Why should they
be prevented from delivering certain messages to each other?
>>Suggestions that the guy looking for capable news reader set up
>>a newsgroup server and read its output with a console app are
>>really very sad.
A friend of mine had to do this on his Mac a few years ago -- it worked
great; he downloaded the news he needed and saved precious (< 28.8)
bandwidth
>It depends on his needs. Suggestions that he use a glorified image
>viewer with weak or nonexistant scoring capabilities is pretty sad as
>well, at least in my eyes. Usenet is information, not multimedia.
Usenet is whatever we make it.
MWT
------------------------------
From: "David A. Frantz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.portable,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: BEST HW For Linux NoteBook Project
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 23:54:38 -0500
Hi Robert;
Robert Billing wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>David Fox wrote:
>
>> You could get a Pentium 233MMX thinkpad 560X from Micro Warehouse for
>> $1299.
>
> Look, chaps, if you are going to crosspost to uk.comp.os.linux, could
>we have the prices in sterling as well please? Btw I have just picked up
>a Libretto, that runs Linux very well, for £600 (that's about $1000).
The GreenBack, the American Dollar, is ubiquitous. It should be as
familiar as the rising sun in any first world country, second and third
world I'm not to sure about.
dave
>
>--
>I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal
>lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/
>"Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock
>phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three"
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jedi)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.linux
Subject: Re: More bad news for NT
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:10:49 -0800
On Sat, 6 Mar 1999 22:02:45 -0600, Jon Wiest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Jason Clifford wrote in message ...
>>There is nothing in the Windows 95 interface that was not present in the
>>Apple Mac interface in 1991 and earlier. The GUI itself was invented and
>
>
>Yes, and? This is such a tired old rant. Just what is your point? Are you
>against widespread adoption of a GUI? Does it bother you that someone made
>money using a public idea? Better get ready to shit all over RedHat. With
Yes and it demonstrates that the free market is quite broken
when Bill can make so much money off of an incomplete and
broken copy of something that was available in the market-
place when he was still peddling very primitive versions of
DOS.
>all the deals they've made with Compaq, Dell and IBM you can bet they are
>going to make it big. Linux will never be the same.
>
>Or maybe you think MS should offer Mac some royalties. Of course, then
>Xerox would be the most fabulously rich company in the world.
>
>Did McDonalds dream up the first hamburger? Who made the first taco chip?
>Should no one do anything ever again because someone else did it first??
The existence and market share of Taco Bell or McDonalds
don't interfere in any way with my decision to perhaps
tomorrow go to Carl's Jr., Wendy's, In&Out, Jack-in-the-box,
or Del Taco.
--
Herding Humans ~ Herding Cats
Neither will do a thing unless they really want to, or |||
is coerced to the point where it will scratch your eyes out / | \
as soon as your grip slips.
In search of sane PPP docs? Try http://penguin.lvcm.com
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
