Linux-Misc Digest #574, Volume #21 Sat, 28 Aug 99 21:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: Best language for graphical apps? (Wolfram Gloger)
Re: What is best HTML Editor for LINUX? (Grant Edwards)
libncurses and glibc2 (Ray Kohler)
Re: win95 & linux (Jayan M)
Re: I've got a PCI Winmodem... (Jayan M)
Re: Com 5 problem solved (Jayan M)
Re: why not C++? (Nix)
Re: why not C++? (Nix)
Re: What on earth is 'bing'? (Ramon F Herrera)
Re: why not C++? (Nix)
Re: Tcl/Tk. I want to learn it. (Robert Heller)
Suse, enlightenment and session manager (Charles M)
Re: VMware - wow! (John Brock)
Re: Maximum Ram? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: ETHERNET .- (Terrence Coccoli)
Re: CD-RW backup (Mircea)
Eavesdropping on a serial port? (Dave Bailey)
Re: WWW e-mail interface? (Benjamin Story)
16Bit Netscape (Jim Engstrom)
Re: dual boot win 98 (OKUJI Yoshinori)
Re: Best language for graphical apps? (Phil Hunt)
Re: Which soundcard is best for Linux? (Dave Brown)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Wolfram Gloger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Best language for graphical apps?
Date: 29 Aug 1999 00:00:19 +0200
"Max Reason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I spend my time and effort inventing and developing products,
> not keeping up with endless attempts to redefine the meanings
> of words and create niches. I consider the means you propose
> for expressing ideas with language inefficient and impractical.
That's OK, however I wasn't trying to play language lawyer but trying
to explain that most Linux developers reject non-modifiable software.
`Free' is just too ambiguous, not only in the Linux context, IMHO.
`No charge' is rather unambiguous, and just a few letters longer.
This is beaten to death in gnu.misc.discuss, but (like you, I think) I
don't have the time and don't want to follow those endless
discussions...
> Incidentally, when I read your paragraph, I am left with all sorts
> of questions about what you mean. You say "everything that is
> considered part of the Linux system is supposed to be 'free'".
> Do you consider every program that runs on Linux to be "part
> of the Linux system"?
Not at all. In fact, I'm quite willing to spend money on good,
proprietary application software. However, being a developer, locking
myself into a proprietary development tool, especially a compiler or a
runtime library, would spoil the whole point of running Linux.
Development tools are certainly part of the Linux system.
> I have no way of knowing without buying
> a non-existent (and certainly non-standard and disputed)
> Linux Lexicon. What does "open source" mean? Is that a
> synonym for "free" or "freeware" or do they mean different
> things to you (and others)?
To me, `open source' and `free software' are slightly different, but
both are equally acceptable because they share the same essential
property, namely freedom to change.
Regards,
Wolfram.
------------------------------
From: grant@nowhere. (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: What is best HTML Editor for LINUX?
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 22:33:23 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Chris Campbell wrote:
><rant>
>
>Why is that, exactly? I've heard the same thing from many other
>so-called HTML experts.
>I want something that will do the code for me, which is
>where a WYSIWYG editor shines.
None of the one's I've tried did. Either shine or do the code
for me.
Frontpage is a piece of shit. It mucks about with fonts so
that pages don't render readably on displays with resolutions
different that the creator's. It can't layout tables in a
decent way (it hard-codes column widths), and so on. URLs it
puts in aren't done properly, so you can't move the page
without it breaking.
Other WYSIWYG editors I've tried were almost as bad. They
just wouldn't handle things I wanted to do. Forms are a big
problem for some of them.
HotMetal was about as close to usable as anything.
>You make those statements like "you should know HTML well enough..." I
>make those statements like, "No, I shouldn't. I don't have the time,
>not the inclenation. However, if my boss says make a page, I must do
>it, so I will, but I won't try to be what I'm not.
If you don't care about generating a well-designed, portable,
usable page, then go ahead and use one of those programs that
generates pages that only work with _one_ particular server and
browser at _one_ display resolution.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Why are these
at athletic shoe salesmen
visi.com following me??
------------------------------
From: Ray Kohler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: libncurses and glibc2
Date: 28 Aug 1999 23:28:27 GMT
Recently I installed glibc-2.1.1 on a Slackware 4.0 system.
As I was warned, I had to recompile some of my static libraries,
ncurses included. After rebuiling, the library runs, but the output
looks "wrong". Specifically, the lines are formatted incorrectly and
text is redrawn badly. Is this an incompatibility between glibc2 and
ncurses? What can I do to fix this?
--
Ray
------------------------------
From: Jayan M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: win95 & linux
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:21:34 GMT
You're probably talking about the Caldera OpenLinux 2.2
installation program.. It lets you start the install from
windows and then will eventually restart the system, to load linux and
complete the installation.. really good one..
Get a CD from cheapbytes.com or lsl.com and
join the fun..
Jayan
M Harpur wrote:
> Hi
> Heard about a linux install program installing from within win95. meant
> to be easy. Anyone know about it?
>
> http://utd.hypermart.net
------------------------------
From: Jayan M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I've got a PCI Winmodem...
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:30:28 GMT
You gave the question and the answer.
Winmodems won't work with linux.. throw it away
and get a real one.
my 2 cents : Try a search of deja before posting
to newsgroups - this question has been answered a gazillion times..
2 more cents: Please,don't be a j**k and post to 100 groups in one
message..
See, you are now 4 cents richer!
:-)
Jayan
Jimmy Lio wrote:
> The PCI Winmodem is giving me headache... No matter how I configure my
> chatscript, the modem just doesn't seem to know how to communicate...
>
> I have heard that Winmodem is "partly" software driven... The fact that
> it works on Windows is that the Windows system provides a virtual
> machine that emulates some of the tasks a regular modem does... Am I
> right...
>
> If this is the case, is there anything I can install on my Linux box to
> make the Winmodem works?
>
> Jimmy Lio
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.setup
From: Jayan M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Com 5 problem solved
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:34:04 GMT
<<snip>>
> hen delete COM 2 and reboot. WARNING: test to make sure it works on Windows
> before going into Linux. Windows is much harder to configure manually than
> Linux .
cool.. That 's a good one!
Jayan
------------------------------
From: Nix <$}xinix{$@esperi.demon.co.uk>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: why not C++?
Date: 27 Aug 1999 19:21:34 +0100
Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> this doesn't mean it cannot be a big win. things
> that work like numbers are usually good targets for heavy
> overloading.
So too are things that work like arrays, functions[1] and pointers, but
have different underlying implementations or something similar.
Imagine using a vector `class' in C. *shudder*
(It isn't pretty at all.)
[1] I'm talking about functional classes here of course
--
'- I can't believe my room doesn't have Ethernet! Why wasn't it wired
when the house was built?
- The house was built in 1576.' --- Alex Kamilewicz on the Cambridge
breed of `conference American'.
------------------------------
From: Nix <$}xinix{$@esperi.demon.co.uk>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: why not C++?
Date: 27 Aug 1999 19:23:50 +0100
Tristan Wibberley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> time :/ One
That's an interesting operator, that is.
What does it do?
--
'- I can't believe my room doesn't have Ethernet! Why wasn't it wired
when the house was built?
- The house was built in 1576.' --- Alex Kamilewicz on the Cambridge
breed of `conference American'.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ramon F Herrera)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: What on earth is 'bing'?
Date: 28 Aug 1999 23:45:23 GMT
Frank v Waveren ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Just out of curiosity...
: Frank v Waveren
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: ICQ# 10074100
Frank,
'bing' stands for "bandwidth ping". It is a tool that allows
you to measure the bandwidth between any 2 routers. Probably
the most important feature is that you can be at a point A
on the Internet and from there you can measure the BW between
points B and C.
In my particular case I manage several sites around the US
connected to the Internet through several ISPs of widely
varying quality levels. At a certain site, we were told
that our connection to the Internet is 56 Kbps, but I suspect
that somewhere inside my provider's network there is an
unavoidable "slow link" much slower than 56K and therefore
we will never be able to achieve the BW that we are paying for.
There is a very similar tool called "traceroute+bing" that can
trace the list of routers and also give you the BW at every hop.
I have been unable to make that tool work (the 'bing' part
always says "unknown"), that's why I am looking for a standalone
bing.
-Ramon
------------------------------
From: Nix <$}xinix{$@esperi.demon.co.uk>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: why not C++?
Date: 27 Aug 1999 19:27:42 +0100
Tristan Wibberley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I've opened a can of worms with that extensible operator syntax - it was
> only meant to be a joke :( I'm sorry.
You *have* seen Stroustrup's classic paper on extending C++ to overload
whitespace, I take it?
--
'- I can't believe my room doesn't have Ethernet! Why wasn't it wired
when the house was built?
- The house was built in 1576.' --- Alex Kamilewicz on the Cambridge
breed of `conference American'.
------------------------------
From: Robert Heller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tcl/Tk. I want to learn it.
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:05:19 GMT
(posted and mailed)
Sean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
In a message on Thu, 26 Aug 1999 05:30:59 GMT, wrote :
S> I'm new to Linux. Lets get that strait. I've had it for almost two weeks
S> and now I want to code with it now that I've got everything (almost) up and
S> running (not my TV Tuner). I want to completely replace windows. But in
S> windows when I want to code a good app I use C/C++, but when I want to slap
S> together a frontend or a small app that will do tedious jobs I use VB (I
S> know don't get mad but it's good to change windows registery settings when
S> I'm too lazy to open regedit). I don't consider VB a *language* but it can
S> do small loops when I want directories from 0 to 1000 created and stuff
S> that takes a while by hand. Anyways I want to learn Tcl/Tk to make a
S> frontend for my app that I want to port to Linux. Now I know it's not
S> *visual* and I like that but can someone tell me where I can get EVERYTHING
S> I need to make apps in Tcl/Tk and where to download them all. As well as
S> some good tutorials since I've never even seen Tcl/Tk code yet but I want
S> tutorials that go beyond the basics. I'm going to start with an app that
S> sets enviroment variables for me. That's what I'm starting with. I'm
S> running Mandrake 6.0 (the newbie distribution!) with kernels 2.2.9 &
S> 2.3.13. Thanks for any reply but please e-mail it to me instaed of posting
S> it :)
Some useful web sites:
http://www.scriptics.com/ -- home of Tcl/Tk -- has a collection
of resource links.
and http://www.neomagic.com/ -- there is a whole archive of Tcl/Tk
applications, extensions, and tools.
There is the wonderful tool named 'xf'. This is a *freeware* Tcl/Tk GUI
builder. It is great.
S>
S> ------------------ Posted via CNET Linux Help ------------------
S> http://www.searchlinux.com
S>
--
\/
Robert Heller ||InterNet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://vis-www.cs.umass.edu/~heller || [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charles M)
Subject: Suse, enlightenment and session manager
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 18:07:15 -0500
I just installed the latest Suse (I'm comparing it to Redhat) and I'm
playing around with it. If I start enlightenment or enlightenment with
gnome, there is no option for session-managment even though the online
docs show that there should be. Anyone know what's going on with Suse and
enlightenment and why the session management option is not there? Anyway
to get it back?
Also, is there any way to permanently kill those pagers in enlightenment?
CMM
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Brock)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: VMware - wow!
Date: 28 Aug 1999 19:15:18 -0400
In article <7q6oir$rf6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Doug DeJulio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Eric deRiel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>steve mcadams wrote:
>>> It is my understanding that the Intel x86 architecture lacks a couple of
>>> instructions that make TOTAL TRANSPARENCY impossible. This is why I was
>>> initially skeptical.
>>If being a true virtual machine implies hardware-supported
>>transparency, then your objection is reasonable. But if a software
>>layer makes up for the missing functionality, such that the OS running
>>on the vm still ends up with no knowledge of its circumstances, what's
>>the difference?
>The point is that you *can't* do this perfectly on today's
>IA32-compatible systems.
Can you do this perfectly on any currently popular microprocessor? I
vaguely remember reading that there was an internal fight over the
PowerPC, and some people were unhappy because IBM chose not to make the
PowerPC architecture completely virtualizable. If true that's a shame;
having worked on IBM's VM OS I understand how true hardware supported
virtual machines can be extremely useful. Also, what about Alpha,
Sparc, PA-RISC, and Merced?
--
John Brock
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Maximum Ram?
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:57:25 GMT
The error I get is:
Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 08:21
and it just hangs there...
Could it really be referring to the SCSI disk? I mean,
at this point it is just trying to create a ramdisk or
am I missing something here? Thanks,
Sandeep
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Quietman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The device that throws up the error - major number 8 - minor number 21
-
> would be the fifth partition on the second SCSI disk. It could however
> be that bad memory is causing the kernel to think it is getting bad
data
> from this partition. It might not even be the DIMMs, it could be cache
> RAM.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: Terrence Coccoli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: ETHERNET .-
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:59:15 GMT
http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/HOWTO/Hardware-HOWTO-12.html
Jorge Dominguez wrote:
> Hi all :
>
> I've installed in my notebook a nic ethernet 3Com Megahertz 10/100 and i
> don't know which is the correct driver for linux red hat 6.0 .-
>
> Can you help me ?
>
> TIA
>
> Jorge Dominguez
> Corrientes-Argentina
>
> ------------------ Posted via CNET Linux Help ------------------
> http://www.searchlinux.com
------------------------------
From: Mircea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: CD-RW backup
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 20:19:23 -0400
Frank Hahn wrote:
>
> On Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:49:51 +0800, charlie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I would like to make backup for some directories into CD-RW disk, any
> >
> Try searching for a program called backburner. It is a set of
> scripts to do this I believe. Try searching http://www.deja.com.
> The person who wrote the scripts has posted about it a few times.
>
That would be http://w3.one.net/~bilshell/backburner/backburner.html
I've discovered it a while ago, and I'm very pleased with it. It's a
great tool, in fact I'm using it at this very moment for my monthly
backup :)
MST
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dave Bailey)
Subject: Eavesdropping on a serial port?
Date: 29 Aug 1999 00:26:21 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I would like to know if it is possible to eavesdrop
on the data coming into and going out of a serial
port. The reason is that I have a device whose
manufacturer only wishes to support Microsoft &#(&@(^,
but I want to be able to use this device with my
Linux laptop. I know that the connection is just
an RS-232 line and that the device sends data in
response to certain requests from the device driver,
but I don't know what the requests are (i.e., to
retrieve Piece Of Data X, spit an 'R' and then an
'X' out and wait for the response, etc.). So I
was considering finding a machine running Windows,
hacking together some code to eavesdrop on the
serial link, and reverse-engineering the interface
by studying it in action. Is this something Linux
people have done before? Is it doable? Or is it
impossible to observe serial communications in a
non-disruptive way?
--
Dave Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Benjamin Story <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: WWW e-mail interface?
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 18:11:56 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> You could try EMUmail for webmail access. It great works with Linux.
>
> http://www.emumail.com
>
> Matt Mankins
> EMUmail
>
> In article <7psne0$uco$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Danny O'Brien wrote:
> > >
> > > > Is there a way to set up a Linux mail server so that e-mail can be
> > > > accessed remotely via the Web? i.e., at the office, mail gets
> > forwarded to
> > > > whatever client we're running on the desktops, but on the road, we
> > can hit
> > > > a Web site and check our mail.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > You can use MailMan. I think you can get it at http://www.cgi-
> > resources.com.
> > > Don't use any other Perl scripts there as they are often insecure.
> > Also look
> > > into WebMail from http://www.ihub.com. It costs money, but we are
> > very happy
> > > with it here at UTK.
> > >
> > > Toby
> > >
> >
> > hi Toby,
> >
> > If you look again, you'll notice he was asking about LINUX.
> > WebMail is for Windows NT/95
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
> >
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
I'd recommend looking at TWIG. http://twig.screwdriver.net
It's a well written interface that is not browser dependent. It even works
in LYNX
------------------------------
From: Jim Engstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 16Bit Netscape
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 02:25:47 +0200
I trying to enter "www.zone.com" with Netscape communicator 4.6" but it
always tell me that must have a 32Bits brovser and that it cant run on a
16Bit browser. Download Netscape 4,x do it stand in the error so waht
shall I do? Do any other nice browser that have suport for java exist or
do I need ti live with this Netscape (crap)? I realy miss a M$ product
and thats IE5.0
/Jim
P.S Sorry for that last word and sorry for the bad spelling. D.S
------------------------------
From: OKUJI Yoshinori <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: dual boot win 98
Date: 28 Aug 1999 20:23:08 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>> Can anyone give me some help on how i can boot the system to have a menu
>> come up with a choice to boot windows or linux. with a time out of 15
>> secs or so to automatically boot windows?
See http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/grub.en.html.
okuji
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Phil Hunt)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Best language for graphical apps?
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 99 00:30:12 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <37c858f8@coconut-wireless>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] "Max Reason" writes:
> >``Open Source'' was invented, in part, to counter the problems
> > regarding the ambiguity in the term ``free software''.
>
> And I think that was a good idea, precisely because the
> natural interpretation of the phrase based on the normal
> understanding of the component words is pretty much
> what the phrase means. And that is why I keep saying
> "freeware" should simply mean "free software", which
> means ANY [uncrippled] software that is available at
> zero cost, not just those that are also "open source".
For similar reasons, I try to avoid the term ``freeware'', most
of whose implications can be better said by referring to
``free-of-cost software'' or ``open source software''.
--
Phil [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dave Brown)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Which soundcard is best for Linux?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 29 Aug 99 00:59:42 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Michel Catudal wrote:
>Tim Izod wrote:
>>
>> Or in preference, use the ALSA driver
>> (http://www.alsa-project.org or look on freshmeat). The ALSA drivers
>> are free, they're GPL and IMHO they sound better. Plus you get
>> /dev/dsp support if you compile them with OSS support. The reasons why
>> ...
>
>They are actually a pain in the ass to install. I read thru the doc
>and flushed the file. Too much shit to do just to get a stupid
I tried to do the ALSA drivers. After downloading and attempting to
compile, it needed some libraries and/or tools that weren't installed.
After installing the needed libraries and tools and successfully compiling
and installing, ---they didn't work! I've decided that sound is just
not worth it!
--
Dave Brown Austin, TX
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
