Linux-Misc Digest #602, Volume #24 Thu, 25 May 00 22:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Windows by Day, Linux by Night (Christopher Browne)
Re: How much ram does seti need to run (Christopher Browne)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Scott)
Bash vs. Korn shell Problem ("Ken Abrahamsen")
Re: Sendmail access very slow (David Efflandt)
vi command question (Jim McIntyre)
Re: Linux, NFS, and >4096 files (Ben Walker)
Re: NEW ON-LINE LINUX BOOK (Neal Pollack)
vote on MS split-up (Gerald Willmann)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Donovan Rebbechi)
Partitioning a hard disk (optimal configurations) (Blake LeBaron)
Re: Q: how to set up my sound card? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Need to reorder process start (Cyperis)
Re: vi command question (Hal Burgiss)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Johan Kullstam)
Re: Bash vs. Korn shell Problem (Steven Buehrle)
Re: Slackware or Debian (Johan Kullstam)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Windows by Day, Linux by Night
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:55:47 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Harlan Grove would say:
>I read through this article, and there's not much there.
>Some excerpts:
>
>"... We created the equivalent of "man pages" for every
>user level program and other major user interface features
>of the system."
>
>I was unaware the man page format was the ideal form of
>documentation. GNU man pages are mostly no longer
>maintained, with GNU commands now described in Info pages.
>Well, Windows does have WinHelp and HTML 'manuals' in a
>hypertext format similar to GNU's Info pages. So man pages
>look like one step backwards.
Flip side:
If the man pages are reasonably well put-together, they can represent
a structure for information that UNIX users are generally fairly
familiar with.
The fact that the FSF deprecates man pages in favor of TeXinfo does
not mean that man pages are a horrid thing. (The _horrid thing_ about
man pages is that so many _modern_ ones are so badly maintained...)
>"1. The name and path of the executable, so you can run it
>from the command line (either a DOS shell, or in Windows
>98, the new address toolbar, or if you have a third party
>product like MKS Toolkit, which brings UNIX utilities to
>Windows, a korn shell). No need to pick through 5 layers of
>menu to run Solitaire any more...just type sol in the
>address toolbar."
>
>Gosh. As if anyone familiar with Gnome or KDE couldn't
>figure out that filenames may differ from GUI menu entries,
>and as if anyone familiar with linux symbolic links
>couldn't figure out Windows shortcuts.
Having a permuted index ala what's in the traditional UNIX (printed)
manuals that provides the pithy representation:
name (section) brief description that fits on a line
is of significant value, when trying to quickly refer to something.
Is it of infinite value? No. Some value? Probably.
>"2. Any related files or directories. (One of the things
>you quickly learn is that many key UI features in Win95 and
>Win98 are controlled by the contents of some key system
>directories. Change the contents of those directories, and
>you change the system more quickly than using Microsoft's
>graphical configuration tools.)"
>
>Renaming /lib or changing files in it with only cp, mv and
>rm would be an equally expedient way of altering the
>behavior of a linux system with similar consequences, too.
I don't think they're referring to the notion of programming via:
cat | gzip -d > a.out
In those cases where the configuration tools are merely manipulating
the values in files/directories, it may very well be simpler, faster,
and _possibly even safer_ (assuming use of RCS :-)) to head over and
modify files using a text editor.
It seems reasonably likely that taking a "UNIX mindset" over to
Windows 9x may offer significant value doing in the troubleshooting
that inevitably arises.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/>
Rules of the Evil Overlord #163. "When planning an expedition, I will
choose a route for my forces that does not go through thick,
leafy terrain conveniently located near the rebel camp."
<http://www.eviloverlord.com/>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: How much ram does seti need to run
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:55:58 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Stewart Honsberger would say:
>On Tue, 23 May 2000 16:30:07 GMT, Julian wrote:
>>how much ram does seti need to run on Linux?
>
>Sorry I can't come up with a definitive answer, but this is what "top"
>reports for the Seti@Home process;
>
>PID USER PRI NI SIZE RSS SHARE STAT LIB %CPU %MEM TIME COMMAND
>280 seti 19 19 13804 13M 236 R N 0 80.6 14.2 2636m setiathome
>
>Now that I look at it, it seems to take up quite a bit more memory than I'd
>like it to. I'm running with 96M of RAM, currently, and I don't think a
>dedicated process, text-only, with its output quelled, should use quite so
>much memory.
>
>Perhaps it's something I should e-mail Seti@Home about...
Perhaps, but I'll suggest another thought...
It is quite possible (nay likely) that while the whole _body_ of the
task is fairly large, the _active set_ may be fairly small.
The point being that if there's only 1MB of code/data that is
normally in active use, the remaining 12MB could get swapped out
without injuring SETI processing.
Suggestion: Try running something that _eats_ memory. (Netscrape?)
Consume up that 96MB with other stuff, and then kill the "junk"
processes. See if the RSS figure changes...
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
"It's obvious that the ``Linus personality cult'' has got to go."
-- Linus Torvalds, May 5, 1999, ABC News
------------------------------
From: Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 19:31:18 -0400
>I also don't see how support by free ISPs is any kind of indicator of
>the quality of technology. I wouldn't touch those free ISPs with a 20
>meter, high voltage catle prod.
Ahemm...
try www.teledyn.com for a free isp that supports ONLY linux.
------------------------------
From: "Ken Abrahamsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.shell
Subject: Bash vs. Korn shell Problem
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:59:37 -0700
Under the Korn shell (AIX 4.3.2), the following does properly initialize the
stated Wkdy Mon Day Time Zone Year variables from the date command:
(from within a ksh script):
date | read Wkdy Mon Day Time Zone Year
However, under RH6.1 (BASH), the variables Wkdy Mon Day Time Zone Year do
not get set (are null).
I've gone through the BASH manual at
http://www.gnu.org/manual/bash/text/bashref.txt
and did't find (at least to me) an explanation as to what's different
between Koen and BASH.
Any pointers would be appreciated.
Thanks.
ken
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Efflandt)
Subject: Re: Sendmail access very slow
Date: 26 May 2000 00:09:22 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 25 May 2000 08:44:42 +0100, chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>I've just installed a Red Hat Linux 6.1 server on a small closed network
>
>running Sendmail, Apache, FTP, DHCP and DNS. All works fine from any of
>the connected machines - approx 10 PC's running a mixture of W95, W98
>and WNT4.
>
>However, when I connect to this network via a router, FTP access times
>out, and times for sendmail range from 45sec to send new mail, and upto
>75sec to check for new mail.
>
>I think it may be a DNS problem, but as everything works OK directly
>connected this may not be the case!
>
>I'm fairly new to networks and also Linux, so any help would be
>appreciated.
Didn't you post this some time ago, or was it somebody else with this
common problem? Linux is having trouble finding a name for the connecting
IP address. If you are not running properly configured DNS then put names
for any local IP addresses in /etc/hosts.
--
David Efflandt [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.de-srv.com/
http://www.autox.chicago.il.us/ http://www.berniesfloral.net/
http://hammer.prohosting.com/~cgi-wiz/ http://cgi-help.virtualave.net/
------------------------------
From: Jim McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: vi command question
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 00:11:08 GMT
Is there an 'e' command to use in vi command mode? The only refernece
to e in tha man pages is to use vi -e to start vi in exec mode. I have
been told it can be use to open a specified in command mode.
TIA
Jim
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ben Walker)
Subject: Re: Linux, NFS, and >4096 files
Date: 25 May 2000 17:49:15 -0600
I have run into the same problem using NFS mounted file systems from an
SGI system. I found decreasing the read buffer size helps. If you are
using an rsize of 8192, try using 2048 or 1024.
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Richard Kaszeta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Okay, I've got a little research project that involves moving around
>*lots* of files (about 16,000 of them), and for a number of reasons
>I'd like to keep them together, and not segregated into subdirectories.
>
>The directory I am trying to use is on my SGI server with lots of disk
>space, nfs mounted onto the client with the standard options.
>
>Once the nfs directory contains more than 4095 files, then my Linux
>machines can no longer 'ls' the directory, or do a number of other
>file operations. My SGI and Sun machines have no problem, however.
>
>However, if I copy the files to the local machine (which takes a
>*long* time), then I can ls the directory without any problems, so
>it seems that Linux NFS has a max number of files limit somewhere.
>
>So, the question is, where is this limit set, and can it be increased?
>
>Thanks!
------------------------------
From: Neal Pollack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: NEW ON-LINE LINUX BOOK
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 18:27:03 -0600
Barry,
I just put up a quick HOWTO for installing RedHat 6.1 on a basic Intel
box to help people get started (http://www.pressplay.net/linux.html),
but you've really gone several magnitudes farther. Nice job! I might
take mine down and just put a link to yours.
Thanks for all the hard work,
Neal
Barry Kauler wrote:
>
> This is a work-in-progress.
> Look at the first three chapters, covering
> installation and getting started for newbies:
>
> http://www.crosswinds.net/~goosee/
>
> Regards,
> Barry Kauler
--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Neal Pollack PressPlay Computer Consultants
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pressplay.net
Carbondale, CO, USA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Gerald Willmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: vote on MS split-up
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:31:31 -0700
CNN is conducting a poll whether MS should be split up and if yes into how
many parts. Please take a minute to vote for a good cause.
-> http://cnnfn.com/poll/microsoft_breakup.html
thanks, Gerald
--
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: 26 May 2000 00:55:56 GMT
On 23 May 2000 13:07:01 GMT, David T. Blake wrote:
>I was not arguing I should create a library. I was not arguing
>against QTs right to use whatever license they like. I was
>arguing that people should think twice before referring to QT
>licensing as substantially free or "open source".
I find it hard to see how it's not "free" or "open source". I
would definitely agree that it's not the GPL, but the FSF doesn't
have a monopoly on free software ( despite what the name might suggest )
> The right to >fork is absent,
The right to fork is rarely if ever exercised unless the project becomes
unmaintained. Troll have made a sincere effort to address this concern
a long time ago.
> the right not to have your contributions included
>in proprietary works (such as QT Pro) is gone,
(a) I don't see why this is an "advantage". It's a very questionable one.
(b) You have similar issues if you develop LGPL'd software.
(c) It's only true if you are actually working on the QT API itself.
> and QT gets a copy
>of EVERYTHING that even links to their code, even if it is not
>publicly available.
If you're writing free software, the above is a complete non-issue.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: Blake LeBaron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Partitioning a hard disk (optimal configurations)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 01:02:44 GMT
I am going to configure my disk as 100% linux (it is now 50/50
Win95/Linux). I'm curious what people think about the best way to
partition a hard disk (mine is about 12 gig) for a 100% linux system.
I think I should have more than 1 large partition (+ swap), but I'm not
sure about this. I've been thinking about putting the system stuff in
one partition, and then mounting a second partition at /home for all the
user related stuff. Are there arguments for having even more than 2
partitions?
I was just curious what others have done with this problem, and what
works best.
Blake LeBaron
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Q: how to set up my sound card?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 01:15:24 GMT
Thank you all for answering my questions.
I have finally figured out what to do to make the sound card work.
Like someone earlier mentioned, "/usr/sbin/sndconfig" is not so
reliable in the real configuration. I set the "/etc/isapnp.conf" file
manually, and got it done.
Anyway, I would like to thank you all for the help and would also like
to keep in touch with you for Linux questions in the future.
HOWI
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Cyperis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Need to reorder process start
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 01:21:40 GMT
On bootup I see that ppp0 fails and keeps trying in the background. I
think that this is because I have ppp0 using a pcmcia modem and pcmcia
services are further down in the boot order. Which file do I need to
edit to reorder the services? Someone suggested /etc/modules/default but
when I vi'd it I saw that it is empty.
Thanks in advance,
Cyperis
--
Agape
Thelema
Agape
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hal Burgiss)
Subject: Re: vi command question
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 01:35:50 GMT
On Fri, 26 May 2000 00:11:08 GMT, Jim McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Is there an 'e' command to use in vi command mode? The only refernece
>to e in tha man pages is to use vi -e to start vi in exec mode. I have
>been told it can be use to open a specified in command mode.
The 'e' in 'vi -e' is not a command. Open a file, then type ':e' and
whatever else. This is the 'command' 'e'.
--
Hal B
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
From: Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 01:41:35 GMT
Nix <$}xinix{$@esperi.demon.co.uk> writes:
> Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > the problem isn't with the install, it's when you go to remove or
> > upgrade. sometimes it's hard (or at least tedious) to figure out what
> > all things went where. then when you find a random file, you wonder
> > where it came from.
>
> GNU stow fixes this pretty well. STORE fixes it far too well (the same
> way as stow) and is so complicated that nobody can work out how to use
> it ;)
>
> If you need external databases to work out where things come from, you
> are in trouble if they get corrupted. If the database is the filesystem
> itself, then that adds no additional points of vulnerability (as you are
> using the fs anyway).
yes but consider a simple program. call it widget.
it's got a man page and config. its executable is
/usr/bin/widget
/usr/man/man1/widget
/etc/widget.cf
notice how the files are scattered all over the filesystem. if the
names are strange or it installs more files, it can get messy fast. i
don't mind them being all over the place, i just want a record of
this. the make install should create a log of what got installed
where. then i could copy this file somewhere and keep track of the
whole widget package. i wish this were a standard feature of people's
makefiles.
i'm not looking for any magic bullets to rescue a broken filesystem, i
just want a little help keeping tracking of what went where.
--
J o h a n K u l l s t a m
[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Don't Fear the Penguin!
------------------------------
From: Steven Buehrle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Bash vs. Korn shell Problem
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.shell
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 01:46:53 GMT
In comp.unix.questions Ken Abrahamsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Under the Korn shell (AIX 4.3.2), the following does properly initialize the
> stated Wkdy Mon Day Time Zone Year variables from the date command:
> (from within a ksh script):
> date | read Wkdy Mon Day Time Zone Year
> However, under RH6.1 (BASH), the variables Wkdy Mon Day Time Zone Year do
> not get set (are null).
> I've gone through the BASH manual at
> http://www.gnu.org/manual/bash/text/bashref.txt
> and did't find (at least to me) an explanation as to what's different
> between Koen and BASH.
The bash man page hints to the reason when it describes pipelines. Its
explained much better in the bash FAQ however. See
ftp://ftp.cwru.edu/pub/bash/FAQ
You might try a here document redirection to get the result your looking
for. Try this:
read Wkdy Mon Day Time Zone Year<<EOF
`date`
EOF
It works on my RH 6.2 system.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Slackware or Debian
From: Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 01:51:18 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne) writes:
> The approach I originally took, many moons back, was to install
> Slackware, and basically fiddle it to the point of destruction.
>
> The reinstall _didn't_ toast /usr/local or /home, and I preserved /etc
> for reference, which was the first really wise set of moves; and the
> learning from the first iteration led to the second iteration taking
> considerably longer (e.g. - to get to "destruction").
yes. i agree completely. that is why i really recommend strongly to
make a /home partition. a newbie (and even an old hand but then you
can make your own decision based on experience) should start with 4
paritions imho.
/boot 10 MB
/home 1 GB
/ 1 or more GB
<swap> 128 MB
let /home and root / grow for today's large disks.
this way you can keep your personal stuff stow away /etc and
/usr/local (in a tar file) and keep them in /home while you utterly
blow away anything in the root partition. i prefer this more radical
method to an in-place upgrade.
backups are essential. i like a CD-R since this make a good,
reasonably cheap backup for /home and /etc. i prefer it to tape since
1) every machine has a CD reader these days
2) you can also make audio CDs.
to reiterate, backups are a *must*. make sure you have *some* way of
backing up your system. unfortunately complete backup systems are
expensive and/or mighty thin on capacity compared to a hard drive.
--
J o h a n K u l l s t a m
[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Don't Fear the Penguin!
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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