Linux-Misc Digest #571, Volume #25 Sat, 26 Aug 00 16:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows ("paul snow")
Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows ("paul snow")
what's up with Sun? ("Y ø r i k")
Re: gnome X file diff prog? WIDE POST (Jean-David Beyer-valinux)
Re: Disk clone - almost (MH)
Re: Headless X86 Linux system ("Philo")
Re: Floppy Drive Question (johnny B)
Re: internet connection (Jean-David Beyer-valinux)
Re: Headless X86 Linux system (Jean-David Beyer-valinux)
Re: XWindow Managers (Andrew Purugganan)
Re: How do you pronounce GNOME? ("Tim 'Zastai' Van Holder")
Re: Floppy Drive Question (Dances With Crows)
multisession CD-Rom (Wolfram)
Re: Headless X86 Linux system (Prasanth A. Kumar)
Re: XPM Icons ("Boyle M. Owl")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "paul snow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 18:13:31 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8o8qsi$urf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Bob Hauck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:52:59 GMT, paul snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >
> > Clearly, you *aren't* a developer.
>
> And that give him the perfect qualifications to determine what developers
> should be doing. Read a little about the latest fad, like XML,
> understanding less than half of the information, credit it with magical
> properties to solve all ills and then direct developers to make it work
> somehow. Sounds familiar?
What is the deal here? I write a post or two that claims that we can manage
computer systems directly, on their storage, outside the abstractions of the
Operating Systems and their Services. I claim that these abstractions and
services simply clutter up the configuration management tasks and get in the
way, cause problems, and waste our time.
I claim that storage is nothing more than structured data, and can be
managed as just that, structured data.
Get over XML already! There is no magic, it is just a means of defining
structured data, and translations of structured data from one form to
another! Tagged file formats have been around since the late 60's! No
magic!
Would it make you happier if we quit talking about XML and said we would
hold the configuration information in TIFF files instead? Those are tagged
files too, and they handle binary! Who even cares, already!
You want to claim that the storage in a computer system is so complex, and
applications are so mysterious that it can't be defined using a simple
format for structured data. It isn't magic, it is just simple structured
data. You want to claim we can't have cross platform installation
facilities because of what? The complexity?
Well I have news for you. If you are a developer, you are a sad one,
because you should know and understand that there isn't much complexity at
the storage level. Files, Directories, and some attributes. That's it.
Very simple, Very structured. The only problem I can see is the possiblity
that Operating Systems are magic, but I don't believe in magic.
XML isn't magic, it is just good at describing structured data.
And storage is just structured data, nothing more, no magic.
------------------------------
From: "paul snow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.text.xml,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux, XML, and assalting Windows
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 18:26:26 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8o8q6v$spd$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> paul snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:L4Pp5.19468$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > This is really getting close to what the origional post was all about!
> Only
> > it is isn't what is in the document that I want to know, but the
> information
> > that is typically "encrypted" into the installation program! I want to
> know
> > what files, directories, configuration settings, etc. that a program
> relies
> > on in order to be operational. I know this information is in the
install
> > program the developer provided. Thus I often uninstall and reinstall
the
> > program to try to fix the program (success rate: 20 percent).
> >
> > The problem is that every software component is handed to me in the
same,
> > encrypted format (a pile of installs from various venders). No meta
> > information about how these structures are supposed to be interrelated.
> No
> > single and separate "installation" facility (or what I would call a
> > "Software Rendering Facility") for collecting and tracking this
> information.
> >
> > Perhaps the developer doesn't WANT me to know what they are going to do
to
> > my computer's storage in order to install their program. Well, in that
> > case, I don't want their product. I am sick and tired of having a dead
> > machine because some stinking DLL or registry setting is screwed up, and
I
> > haven't got any reasonable way of figuring it out. In fact, I have such
a
> > laptop (a four week old, top of the line Dell with a dead Windows 98)
> > sitting right over there in the corner.
> >
> > My point is we have gotten past the idea that the writer is responsible
> for
> > laying out each page in a document. Let's get over the idea that each
> > developer has the responsibility for laying out my storage.
> >
> > There is little to hide when it comes to how to install software. So
why
> > don't developers just lay out what they need done in plain English (or
> > swahili whatever) already!
>
> If that is your concern, then you didn't word it very well and bringing
XML
> in to the discussion was pointless side issue that you gave center stage
to.
>
> If all you want is information and control over your system when
installing
> new software and have the power to override bad installation ideas in
> relations to your hosts needs; then WELCOME TO THE ALMOST FORGOTTEN PAST
OF
> COMPUTING! That is just the way things were before Microsoft along with a
> few other companies together desided that we neither needed to know or
even
> could handle these issues.
>
> To fix thing we don't need a redesigned package manager as you now seem to
> be championing. All we need is for the software to be delivered in a
format
> that we can control its installation. At one time all we had to do was
copy
> the programs and their supporting files onto our systems, we were in
control
> of that process, we knew what was being done and could select to locations
> of the programs. Then they started to be shipped in standard compressed
> archives. We could still examine the contents of the archives and control
> and override the installation process as we saw fit.
>
> Over time the process has become more and more automated with less and
less
> control on the part of the humans responsible for the installation. What
we
> need is to reject Redmond's way of doing thing and a return to the past.
> When you depend on a standard installation program/package manager you are
> surrendering control. You are right if you believe we need to eliminate
> installation programs for most cases, but you don't do that by just
> introducing another package manager. You do that by returning to the way
> things were done right before the installation programs and package
managers
> came along.
Ah those simple days of yore! But we can't and we won't go back.
Today we have Java VMs and Adobe Acrobat viewers, and browsers, and browser
plug-ins, word processing packages, and stock tickers, Internet based games,
etc. Never mind that we are going to be configuring systems to connect with
other systems, and use databases, and database clients, and we need to set
up security, and down load the new versions of our clients, etc.
It isn't going to be simple in the future. It is going to get worse. In
another post I list a set of requirements we are going to need from a
package manager. Not want, need. Typewriters are out for good. And
Redmond may be at fault to some degree, but if so they only pushed us ahead
in time a bit. It was going to happen to us anyway.
We have to have package managers, but they need to be based on open
standards. And they need to operate in an environment outside the execution
environment of the supported computer systems. They need to be able to
manage cross platform, distributed applications. Why? Because we are on
the Internet already! We want to bank, we want to order hamburgers on the
Interstate Hwy so I don't wait for my order! I want to use my PDA to adjust
my lights in my hotel (cause I don't know where the switches are, but I have
my PDA), I want to listen to my MP3 files on the rental car's stereo, from
the station I programmed on the Internet.
We can't do all of this by coping all our files onto our bin directory.
Sorry.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: what's up with Sun?
From: "Y ø r i k" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 18:35:06 GMT
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20000824/tc/is_sun_really_public_enemy_no_1__1.html
------------------------------
From: Jean-David Beyer-valinux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: gnome X file diff prog? WIDE POST
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:38:09 -0400
Hammer wrote:
> Ok, I'll give you something to laugh about :)... I am an ex-Win32
> developer turned Linux newbie... gettin' just about good enough to be
> dangerous now :)
>
> I need a graphical file diff prog, for source diffs. I use gnome. I'm
> real used to Windiff, from the Win32 SDK if you've seen it... anybody
> know of anything out there like that??
>
> I would use rpmfind or something to locate one, but I'm behind a socks
> proxy for the moment, and it ain't socksified.
>
> Thanks. Is this question OT to this forum? If so, sorry.
>
> -=hammer
>
> --
> MC
> "I've been trying to get as far away from myself as I can" - Bob Dylan
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Are you sure you need a graphical one? I find the sdiff program extremely useful.
I normally run GNOME on top of X Window system and just open an xterm,
make the xterm fill the screen, and then do:
sdiff -w 160 file1 file2 | less
pick values of 160 to put about half a screen width of each file together with its
mate. If the
files are very short, you can omit the | less part.
Here is a little sdiff like that. I deleted a few spaces to give a hope of fitting it
on a screen.
You will probably need a wide window (e.g., 160 columns) to see it properly.
If my poster program will do it, and your reader does not line-wrap it, that is. It
will not
make sense unless in constant-width. The | symbol indicates a pair of lines that are
not
identical. They also put in > or < symbols in that middle column to indicate additions
or
deletions.
if((companyId < 0) && (companyIdT >= 0))
if((companyId < 0) && (companyIdT >= 0))
companyId = companyIdT;
companyId = companyIdT;
if(companyIdN < 0) { // Make co_name |
if(companyIdN == DB_NODATA) { // Make co_name
if(! stock_database.enter_name(data_date, "9999-12-31", if(!
stock_database.enter_name(data_date, "9999-12-31",
companyId, companyName)) {
companyId, companyName)) {
cerr << "Could not enter name for "
cerr << "Could not enter name for "
<< companyTicker << endl;
<< companyTicker << endl;
return false;
return false;
} // END OF Did it work? (failed) } //
END OF Did it work? (failed)
} // END OF enter if not already there. } // END
OF enter if not already there.
--
Jean-David Beyer .~.
Shrewsbury, New Jersey /V\
Registered Linux User 85642. /( )\
Registered Machine 73926. ^^-^^
------------------------------
From: MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Disk clone - almost
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:45:28 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Duane wrote:
>
>
> Well, a couple of comments. There was no point in making partitions and
> directories on hdb, because your dd command overwrote them. Also, bs=512
> is way small and I would expect that to cause the copy to take a long
> time. If using dd on disks, I typically use bs=65536.
>
> Are you using identical disks? If so, here is what I do:
> # cp /dev/hda /dev/hdb
That is awesome! I've been trying to figure out a way to have a mirror
copy of my system disk without using RAID. I've read numerous posts
regarding backup techiques--tar, cpio, cp -a, etc. But these all seemed
cumbersome, and none of them seemed to provide a bootable backup (I
wasn't sure about dd).
Low and behold, little cp does the job! I tested it just to make sure,
since I've often gotten incorrect information off NGs. It works just as
you said. I now can run a simple cron job once a day and have a
complete bootable backup just by switching a jumper on my HDD. How sweet
it is.
--
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal."
--Aristotle
------------------------------
From: "Philo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Headless X86 Linux system
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 13:46:58 -0500
the bios will *not* usually allow a startup without a keyboard
attached...this is totally independent of the os of course.
the machine will function without a moniter but running a non-annunciated
system sounds like big trouble to me.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 21:19:05 +0200
From: johnny B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: Floppy Drive Question
Akira Yamanita wrote:
> johnny B wrote:
> >
> > hi
> >
> > i've noticed that if i accidentally try to write to a write-protected
> > floppy disk, and then unprotect the disk, i'm still unable to write to
> > it. everytime i try to do a write, i get a "read-only filesystem" error.
> > this happens even if i explicitly mount the disk with the "-o rw"
> > option. the only thing that seems to work is rebooting.
> >
> > how can i get around this problem?
> >
> > thanks
> > ali
>
> Did you unmount it and then remount it?
yes. it doesnt help. the problem usually occurs after i use dd. for instance:
dd if=input.img of=/dev/fd0;
if the disk is write-protected when i do this, the problem starts, and all i
know how to do is reboot to fix it. /dev/fd0 is usually not mounted when i
use the dd command like this.
------------------------------
From: Jean-David Beyer-valinux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: internet connection
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:04:23 -0400
"Andrew N. McGuire" wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2000, Akira Yamanita quoth:
>
> ~~ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:58:04 GMT
> ~~ From: Akira Yamanita <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> ~~ Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
> ~~ Subject: Re: internet connection
> ~~
> ~~ roger wrote:
> ~~ >
> ~~ > i can connect to my isp and the connection remains, but i cannot get my
> ~~ > netscape browser to work. So I cannot surf or communicate.
> ~~ >
> ~~ > can anyone help
> ~~ >
> ~~ > thanks roger
> ~~
> ~~ Chances are that you haven't configured DNS properly or at all.
> ~~ Can you do something like "nslookup redhat.com"? If not, that's
> ~~ the cuprit. Without knowing what errors you're getting, I can only
> ~~ guess.
When I first installed Netscape 4.something on my machine, I did not run a name
server, resolver, or anything. nslookup would probably have had trouble with
anything except localhost and 127.0.0.1, though I do not recall trying it. Netscape
noted that by the absense of the lines:
MOZILLA_NO_ASYNC_DNS=1
export MOZILLA_NO_ASYNC_DNS
in my .bash_profile file. In consequence, whenever I started up Netscape, it forked
off a little program whose name was, IIRC, dns_helper that did everything. I
needed If you are running this way (I no longer do, since I do run named (bind),
sendmail, and other stuff), the other comments here may not apply.
If you are really new at this, perhaps you have not gone to Edit->Preferences->Mail
Servers and set yourself up.
> ~~
> ~~ In /etc/resolv.conf, you need to add the IP addresses of your ISP's
> ~~ DNS servers.
> ~~
> ~~ example:
> ~~ nameserver 10.0.0.1
> ~~ nameserver 10.0.0.2
> ~~
>
> You may also want to add a 'domain' (or 'search') line:
>
> domain my.isp.com
>
> Where my.isp.com is replaced with your ISP's domain.
> Also check that the 'hosts' line in /etc/nsswitch.conf
> defines 'dns', not just 'files':
>
> hosts: files dns
>
> Regards,
>
> anm
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~ Andrew N. McGuire ~
> ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~
> ~ "Plan to throw one away; you will, anyhow." - Frederick P. Brooks, Jr. ~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
Jean-David Beyer .~.
Shrewsbury, New Jersey /V\
Registered Linux User 85642. /( )\
Registered Machine 73926. ^^-^^
------------------------------
From: Jean-David Beyer-valinux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Headless X86 Linux system
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:07:12 -0400
fred smith wrote:
> My employer is preparing to ship a turnkey Linux system complete with
> one of our applications.
>
> The question came up whether it was necessary to include a monitor and
> keyboard, or if it could be run "headless".
>
> As far as I know, you need (or at least ought to have) a monitor/video
> card/keyboard for the boot process if for no other reason than to allow
> you to view the POST and any BIOS errors that may occur.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with headless X86 Linux boxes, or
> can someone point me to HOWTOs or other docs on the subject?
I never tried it, but if it works, you still might wish to see what is going on, so
set it up to run a cheap (black&white) monitor on a serial port or NIC card
or a modem or something. How will you do customer support if you cannot see what the
box is up to?
--
Jean-David Beyer .~.
Shrewsbury, New Jersey /V\
Registered Linux User 85642. /( )\
Registered Machine 73926. ^^-^^
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Purugganan)
Subject: Re: XWindow Managers
Date: 26 Aug 2000 19:00:54 GMT
Garry Knight ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
[ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Purugganan) wrote:
[ >Garry Knight ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
[ >[ Gnome would have a way of changing the settings for Enlightenment.
[ >Gnome is a desktop manager, E is a window manager.
[ You've misquoted me. I said, "And it's unlikely that Gnome would have a
[ way of changing the settings for Englightenment. Gnome is a desktop manager, E
[ is a window manager." The way you've quoted it, it looks as if I said Gnome
[ *would* have a way of changing the settings, and it looks as if you corrected
[ me.
my bad, garry. I snipped too much. I wonder if we'll ever hear from the
guy again (or did he use the 1 bullet? ;-)
--
jazz
Registered linux user no. 164098 +--+--+--+ Litestep user no. 386
Doesn't it bother you, that we have to search for intelligent life
--- OUT THERE??
------------------------------
From: "Tim 'Zastai' Van Holder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How do you pronounce GNOME?
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 19:15:06 GMT
"Garry Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Stephenson) wrote:
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] "<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >" writes:
> >
> >> 1. Is it gnome, like the man who sits by your pond. OR
> >> 2. Is it Gee-Nome, as in the human gnome project. OR
> >> 3. Is it pronounced similar to GNU, like Gu-Nome.
> >>
> >> Any Ideas?
> >
> >Hope other answers have proved satisfactory. (I say '1', FWIW.)
>
> You might know this already, but Gnome stands for GNU Object Model
Environment.
> And the official pronunciation of GNU is guh-noo. Hence, guh-nome. (And
FWIW I
> also pronounce it as in 1 when I'm talking to non-Linux users.)
Then again, there's 'gnus' (the emacs newsreading package).
Seems to me this name was chosen because it sounds like 'news' when
pronounced as
in 1. above. So there seems to be evidence for both 1. and 3. (2 is silly,
it's the
humanf GENOME, not GNOME project :-P - but that's not to say the people who
thought up the name didn't consider this as another 'fun pun').
Tim Van Holder
--
Hi, I'm a signature virus. plz set me as your signature and help me spread
:)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: Floppy Drive Question
Date: 26 Aug 2000 19:24:10 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 21:19:05 +0200, johnny B wrote:
>Akira Yamanita wrote:
>> Did you unmount it and then remount it?
>
>yes. it doesnt help. the problem usually occurs after i use dd. for instance:
>dd if=input.img of=/dev/fd0;
>if the disk is write-protected when i do this, the problem starts, and all i
>know how to do is reboot to fix it. /dev/fd0 is usually not mounted when i
>use the dd command like this.
I just tried to reproduce that problem--the dd command failed,
naturally, but after unprotecting the floppy and reinserting it,
everything worked normally.
Which kernel is this, and is floppy support compiled as a module? (That
is, when you have a floppy mounted, does "lsmod" show "floppy" in its
listing?) If floppy support is modular, you can rmmod floppy and insmod
it again... that should reset all the weirdness going on. The floppy
drive itself may not be behaving correctly; if it's not sending the Disk
Change signal, it might cause funny problems like this.
--
Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / Those who do not understand Unix are
http://www.brainbench.com / condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
=============================/ ==Henry Spencer
------------------------------
From: Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: multisession CD-Rom
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 21:23:37 +0200
Hi there,
my Teac R55S does not READ multisession-CDs
under Linux. Couldn't find any hint how to
activate this. The source looks that multisession
is supported. Who can help me?
(Currently not yet interested on writing
CDs under Linux)
Wolfram
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Headless X86 Linux system
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Prasanth A. Kumar)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 19:51:05 GMT
fred smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> My employer is preparing to ship a turnkey Linux system complete with
> one of our applications.
>
> The question came up whether it was necessary to include a monitor and
> keyboard, or if it could be run "headless".
>
> As far as I know, you need (or at least ought to have) a monitor/video
> card/keyboard for the boot process if for no other reason than to allow
> you to view the POST and any BIOS errors that may occur.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with headless X86 Linux boxes, or
> can someone point me to HOWTOs or other docs on the subject?
<snip>
I've done this with no problems. You just disable the keyboard
warnings in the bios setup. To access the box, you connect through the
network via telnet or you can configure the kernel to use the serial
port instead by putting something like 'console=tty0,9600n8' in the
lilo options. In my case, I just use the network and then hacked up
the boot scripts to put a unique beep tone through the speaker if
there are some problems during bootup.
--
Prasanth Kumar
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Boyle M. Owl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: XPM Icons
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 16:03:34 -0500
In article <8o8pji$6vs$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Anton Suchaneck"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would like to beautify my folders. So where can I find XPM-Icons
> for that purpose?
1. go get ico2xpm, configure, make, sudo make install. (you have
configured sudo, no?)
2. go to www.freethemes.com
check out icons....yes, they're windows/mac icons, with .ico
extensions
download the ones you want....
cd into the dir where you stored your icons...unzip the icons, then
run ico2xpm *
voila! xpm icons!
if you are in KDE, go to the ~/.kde/share/icons directory and change
the icons there..dont' do it in /opt/kde/share/icons
(of course, if you're not root (and you shouldn't be) that's the only
way you can change your icons)
--
"We will ship them our garbage. We will ship our garbage to
Redmond, and they can go through it. We believe in full disclosure."
-Larry Ellison of Oracle
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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