Linux-Misc Digest #624, Volume #27 Tue, 17 Apr 01 00:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ? (Charles Lyttle)
Re: READ THIS!!!Here is the technical explanation! (Robert Heller)
upgrading redhat 6.2 to kernel 2.4.3? (Randy R)
Re: RedHat 7.1 too early ?,... (Arctic Storm)
Re: modify S/N # of NTFS
Re: How to measure elapsed time? (MH)
Re: RedHat 7.1 too early ?,... ("Wong Ching Kuen Frederick")
Re: RedHat 7.1 too early ?,... (Alex)
Re: Linux Mandrake 8.0 (Aaron Brice)
Re: remote ftp mount (Dean Thompson)
Formation of new LUG in Hamilton, NJ ("Jeffrey Yep")
Follow up to Formation of new LUG in Hamilton, NJ ("Jeffrey Yep")
Re: RedHat 7.1 too early ?,... (Stanislaw Flatto)
Cd Burning (ThanhVu N)
Re: Changing initial window size (David Efflandt)
Re: Daylight saving bug in Redhat Linux? (David Efflandt)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Charles Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 01:14:45 GMT
Paul Repacholi wrote:
>
> "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > "franek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > > I could never understand this enamoration with HTML-based
> > > interfaces. There's a good case for using HTML in a normal
> > > web-based environment, but why the hell one would want to use this
> > > crude and slow method in a standalone system is beyond me.
>
> > Well, there are a lot of reasons why one might want to do this.
>
> > 1) rollout of new versions is effortless. Just install the new
> > pages, scripts, etc.. and it just works the next time they load a
> > page. You can do this by centralizing the apps in a traditional
> > environment as well, but then you have to get everyone to exit their
> > processes and reload. This isn't something you would want to do
> > automatically because users might have a page up for a specific
> > reason, and killing it on them could be disasterous.
>
> > 2) You can use very low-end hardware for terminals (win 3.1 boxes
> > even).
>
> Great if you have no solvents, dust, high power machinery...
>
> As I said, get factory experience and understand *the* factory.
> Cutting $20 bucks won't go far when you are explaining the reasons for
> destroying $100M of plant and killing 5 people.
>
> Oh, and rolling out new versions is NEVER effortless. It can take 6
> months or more of extensive testing before you 'roll out'. And if you
> think that it becomes easier by adding a huge jump in complexity...
>
> --
> Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
> +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
> West Australia 6076
> Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
However there are a number of manufacturers who make PC equals for the
factory floor. They are much lower cost than traditional factory
hardware, especially HP or Sun systems. These systems cost lots more
than CompUSA trash, but still are cost effective, *IF* they have a good
OS loaded. Linux does have competitors in this market, QNX being one.
But the cost of a single BSOD is high enough to keep Windows out.
--
Russ Lyttle
"World Domination through Penguin Power"
The Universal Automotive Testset Project at
<http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
------------------------------
From: Robert Heller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: READ THIS!!!Here is the technical explanation!
Date: 17 Apr 2001 01:26:09 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
In a message on Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:43:29 GMT, wrote :
c> Robert Heller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
c> > [EMAIL PROTECTED],
c> > In a message on Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:22:57 GMT, wrote :
c> >
c> > c> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Mercer) writes:
c> > c> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
c> > c> > Jason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
c> > c> > > Jason wrote:
c> > c> > >>
c> > c> > >> If this is the wrong newsgroup, sorry.
c> > c> > >> Hi, I have an important question, I'm not trying to cause trouble, but
c> > c> > >> why is it that Internet Explorer for Microsoft runs so much faster than
c> > c> > >> any browser on Linux?
c> > c> > >
c> > c> > > It's not. It's faster than Netscape or Mozilla for some things,
c> > c> > > but is slow as a sloth compared to Konqueror and many of the other
c> > c> > > borwsers out there.
c> > c> > >
c> > c> > > In part, IE has going for it that portions of the browser reside in the
c> > c> > > kernel instead of user space, and it uses DirectDraw for some rendering
c> > c> > > (and Netscape etc don't use DRI). Also, IE uses the native widget set
c> > c> > > whereas Netscape uses the poorly design Motif widget set. In comparison,
c> > c>
c> > c> > Motif is hardly "poorly designed". Netscape's implementation on
c> > c> > Motif was very poor. Netscape's ignorance is not Motif's fault.
c> > c>
c> > c> Hmm... Motif has long been famed for requiring applications to have
c> > c> quite a lot of workarounds for bugs that accreted over the years. And
c> > c> of course, once there's a substantial codebase out there that
c> > c> _depends_ on working around the bugs, that makes it impossible to fix
c> > c> them.
c> >
c> > c> <http://ecco.bsee.swin.edu.au/unix/uh/motif.html>
c> > c> <http://catalog.com/hopkins/unix-haters/x-windows/disaster.html>
c>
c> > The *main* problem with Motif is not so much Motif *itself*, but the
c> > Xt code it lives on top of. The Xtoolkit (libXt) is a (poor)
c> > attempt to implement an OOP library with a non-OOP language (plain
c> > C). Xtoolkit predates C++ and thus does not make use of the
c> > maturity of C++ and is pretty much stuck with a basicly *primitive*
c> > OOP hack. Motif, in part due to the basic primitiveness of the
c> > Xtoolkit, is a massive resource hog and is also massively cumbersome
c> > to program with, *especially* if one is using C++ -- you end up
c> > using an OOP language using a fake OOP interface to a library
c> > written in a non OOP language that is *pretending* to be OOP. Gag
c> > me with a turkey baster... Been there, done that, won't do it
c> > again. One can get the look-and-feel of Motif using Tcl/Tk scripts
c> > layered on top of C++ class libraries. Rapid, clean, *fast*,
c> > simple, AND cross-platform (at no extra cost).
c>
c> That seems to makes sense, although I've certainly heard flames in all
c> kinds of directions surrounding Xt, with the usual counter being
c> something along the lines of:
c>
c> If you want to make a _Proper_ X application, you should use Xt,
c> and not this evil GTK or Qt stuff, which don't quite conform to
c> ICCCM, and where you can't merge resource databases...
c>
c> I don't really have much love for ICCCM, nor for xrdb...
I believe that Tcl/Tk understands ICCCM, including the xrdb database.
And does not use Xt.
c> --
c> (reverse (concatenate 'string "ac.notelrac.teneerf@" "454aa"))
c> http://vip.hyperusa.com/~cbbrowne/resume.html
c> How do I type "for i in *.dvi do xdvi $i done" in a GUI? (Discussion
c> in comp.os.linux.misc on the intuitiveness of interfaces.)
c>
--
\/
Robert Heller ||InterNet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://vis-www.cs.umass.edu/~heller || [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153
------------------------------
From: Randy R <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: upgrading redhat 6.2 to kernel 2.4.3?
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 02:03:11 GMT
Does anyone have the complete steps (in order,) to upgrading Redhat
6.2 to kernel 2.4.3?
I want to upgrade to the newest versions of X and KDE after this is
done.
Randy R
------------------------------
From: Arctic Storm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RedHat 7.1 too early ?,...
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 02:08:14 GMT
> > According to the package list for RedHat 7.1, the included Linux kernel
> > is 2.4.2.
> > According to www.kernel.org, the latest stable version in 2.4.3.
> > RedHat 7.1 includes XFree86 4.0.3, but version 4.1 is just around the
> > corner.
> > RedHat 7.1 includes Netscape 4.76 instead of 4.77; also, an option for
> > verison 6.01 is absent.
> > Should RedHat wait a bit longer to include a more stable version of the
> > Linux kernel and XFree86 4.1?
>
> I think I am more disappointed at that they are still using GCC2.96
> instead of GCC2.95. I used to like RedHat. One thing for sure, as long
> as they are not using the standard stuff, I will not buy or use RedHat
> stuff. I was using RedHat 6.2 and never bother to switch to 7.0. I think
> I will switch to Debian or Slackware sometime soon.
I'm confused,... You would prefer the older version, gcc 2.95, rather than
gcc 2.96, and imply that the former version is the "standard".
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: modify S/N # of NTFS
Date: 17 Apr 2001 02:17:37 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi,
> I am wondering if there is any way to modify the S/N number
> of a NTFS partition. Any tools or methods under any platforms
> are welcome. But be ware that the hdd has *only* NTFS. While
> we can boot from floppy or another hdd from the same computer.
> I used to use "debug" under DOS to modify the S/N of FAT32.
> Just cannot find where is the S/N of NTFS :)
> ---- Brittle
I mean the S/N # listed when using 'dir'
---- Brittle
------------------------------
From: MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How to measure elapsed time?
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 19:29:55 -0700
Peter T. Breuer wrote:
> MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Peter T. Breuer wrote:
>>> That is not the manpage you want! Time is a sh (and csh) builtin. You
>>> want the man page for bash (or tcsh). Section (2) of the manual is
>>> devoted to system calls that programmers can put in their codes. You
>>> are not interested in that.
>>>
>> The correct man page is not installed on my RH box for some reason.
>
> If you don't have the man page for bash and/or tcsh, you don't have
> anything! Look again. "man bash".
>
> Peter
>
Don't have anything? Not sure what that's supposed to mean. Anyway, the
man page for the appropriate time command exists on my Debian box, but not
on my RH box. Finally, there is no time command listed in the man page for
bash (at least not on my RH box which is what I'm using to compose this
reply) so far as I could see. I did see a "times" command described
therein, but it doesn't appear to provide the same utility.
In any case, I now know how to use the time command, thanks to an example
provided by another poster, and I can always refer to the man page on my
Debian box, now that I know it has the man page I was unable to locate on
my RH box.
--
I use GNU/Linux and support the Free Software Foundation. This message was
composed and transmitted using free software, licensed under the General
Public License.
--
------------------------------
From: "Wong Ching Kuen Frederick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RedHat 7.1 too early ?,...
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:47:37 +0800
me too. buy i compile the pgcc myself to overcome this problem.
"Alex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ¼¶¼g©ó¶l¥ó
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Arctic Storm wrote:
> >
> > According to the package list for RedHat 7.1, the included Linux kernel
> > is 2.4.2.
> > According to www.kernel.org, the latest stable version in 2.4.3.
> > RedHat 7.1 includes XFree86 4.0.3, but version 4.1 is just around the
> > corner.
> > RedHat 7.1 includes Netscape 4.76 instead of 4.77; also, an option for
> > verison 6.01 is absent.
> > Should RedHat wait a bit longer to include a more stable version of the
> > Linux kernel and XFree86 4.1?
>
> I think I am more disappointed at that they are still using GCC2.96
> instead of GCC2.95. I used to like RedHat. One thing for sure, as long
> as they are not using the standard stuff, I will not buy or use RedHat
> stuff. I was using RedHat 6.2 and never bother to switch to 7.0. I think
> I will switch to Debian or Slackware sometime soon.
>
> Maybe it's just me...
>
> Alex.
------------------------------
From: Alex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RedHat 7.1 too early ?,...
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:16:23 -0400
Arctic Storm wrote:
<snip>
> I'm confused,... You would prefer the older version, gcc 2.95, rather
> than
> gcc 2.96, and imply that the former version is the "standard".
I wasn't implying... It is a fact, please check gcc web site!!!
To be more precise check the following web site:
http://www.gnu.org/software/gcc/gcc-2.96.html
It could be fixed... But then again, why would I want to use something
that is "new" but broken and I get to fix it???
Alex.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Brice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Mandrake 8.0
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 03:08:17 GMT
I'm currently running Mandrake 8.0beta3 on a Asus K7V with 750 MHz Athlon and
having no problems. I don't have the built in sound card though. Also have a
TNT2 card instead of the Voodoo. Also, I've only been running for a couple
weeks and don't do anything too hardcore..
routerl wrote:
> Before I start posting about how Mandrake 8.0 is full of bugs and then get
> reminded that its just a beta, I want to ask this question:
>
> - Is it worth downloading Mandrake 8.0 before the final version is released?
>
> I have been dying to swicth over to Linux permanently but have not had the
> chance to do so yet because my system is somewhat exotic.
>
> AMD Athlon (Classic) 750MHz
> 128mb RAM
> Asus K7V Motherboard <--- Here lies the problem
> VooDoo 3 2000 AGP <--- Here too, I think
>
> Now, the K7V motherboard uses a VIA chipset and has built in sound card.
> Mandrake 7, 7.1, 7.2 did not support this "sound card". I think it was a KDE
> problem because KDE 1.9 was shipped with 7.2, not the real KDE 2. Will this
> be solved now?
>
> And about the Voodoo 3, 3dfx went out of business. Will this, at all affect
> the development of drivers for Linux or are they all third party? The one
> site I know of that has Linux 3dfx drivers was linux.3dfx.com and they're
> gone now.
>
> Please help me out if you can. It would also be nice to hear from someone
> who has used the 8.0 beta.
>
> routerl
------------------------------
From: Dean Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: remote ftp mount
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:09:30 +1000
Hi Jeffrey,
> Is there anything that would do the equivalent of a mount via ftp on a
> remote server... I don't want to run nfs, and really just need the
> functionality of opening and saving files via ftp the way that emacs does
> if you open a remote file... I would generally not have it open for long
> periods of time, if that makes a difference... Their are firewalls on
> either end of the connection...
>
> Or what is the "best" way to accomplish this... I searched for ftp mount
> and didn't get much, and can't find anything under ssh or the like that
> does what I need... although I did read that midnight commander allows
> something like what i need...
Midnight commander achieves this trick from memory, by ftping the directory
list to you, allowing you to select, the file, editing it locally and then
remotely sending it back. Hence, it gives you the illusion that your files
are there, but they really aren't. They are pulled across when needed. I
think your options are either going to be doing it via the Midnight commander
trick or actually installing NFS onto your system.
See ya
Dean Thompson
--
+____________________________+____________________________________________+
| Dean Thompson | E-mail - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
| Bach. Computing (Hons) | ICQ - 45191180 |
| PhD Student | Office - <Off-Campus> |
| School Comp.Sci & Soft.Eng | Phone - +61 3 9903 2787 (Gen. Office) |
| MONASH (Caulfield Campus) | Fax - +61 3 9903 1077 |
| Melbourne, Australia | |
+----------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
From: "Jeffrey Yep" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Formation of new LUG in Hamilton, NJ
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:11:33 -0400
Hi everyone,
For the interests of everyone, I am announcing the formation of a new LUG in
Hamilton, NJ, USA. I am in the process of setting up mail server and small
website. Any help, suggestions, tips appreciated. Also definitely need ppl
to join! So all you Linuxers out there in Central NJ c'mon and join and help
advance the spread of Linux.
Jeffrey Yep
PS: I'm just a user and not a guru in Linux, but an avid fan and quick
learner. I did help in the formation of the Linux-Delhi LUG in India
www.linux-delhi.org and was an active member there.
--
======================================================================
Testing? What's that? If it compiles, it is good, if it boots up it is
perfect.
------------------------------
From: "Jeffrey Yep" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Follow up to Formation of new LUG in Hamilton, NJ
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:12:53 -0400
Ok, this was totally stupid of me to miss this, but my email contact is
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jeffrey Yep
--
======================================================================
Testing? What's that? If it compiles, it is good, if it boots up it is
perfect.
------------------------------
From: Stanislaw Flatto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RedHat 7.1 too early ?,...
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:30:59 +1000
If stability is your goal forget R/H!
Stanislaw.
Slack user from Ulladulla.
Arctic Storm wrote:
> According to the package list for RedHat 7.1, the included Linux kernel
> is 2.4.2.
> According to www.kernel.org, the latest stable version in 2.4.3.
> RedHat 7.1 includes XFree86 4.0.3, but version 4.1 is just around the
> corner.
> RedHat 7.1 includes Netscape 4.76 instead of 4.77; also, an option for
> verison 6.01 is absent.
> Should RedHat wait a bit longer to include a more stable version of the
> Linux kernel and XFree86 4.1?
------------------------------
From: ThanhVu N <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Cd Burning
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:39:53 -0400
I run X Cd roast and it says need to recompile the kernel for scsi devices
if I use atapi or ide cdr ... doesn't make any sense. Can anyone help me
out.
thanks
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Efflandt)
Subject: Re: Changing initial window size
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 03:52:23 +0000 (UTC)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:38:45 GMT, Abha Ahuja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I want to change the initial window size to 4 segments. How can I do this
> for a linux kernel. Do I have to modify the ketnel source or is it a
> configurable option/setting. Any help in this area is appritiated. Thanks in
> advance for any answers.
Since you also posted this separately (instead of crosspost) to a
networking newsgroup, I don't know if your question is about networking
(TCP windows) or X windows.
If it is an X question, maybe you need to read the docs about your window
manager. For example in KDE2 Control Center it is under Look&Feel,
Desktop, Virtual Desktops. But you do not give a clue what windows you
are referring to (or which wm, if this is a question about X).
--
David Efflandt (Reply-To is valid) http://www.de-srv.com/
http://www.autox.chicago.il.us/ http://www.berniesfloral.net/
http://cgi-help.virtualave.net/ http://hammer.prohosting.com/~cgi-wiz/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Efflandt)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Daylight saving bug in Redhat Linux?
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 04:08:34 +0000 (UTC)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:22:46 -0400, Raymond Chui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jean-David Beyer wrote:
>
> Thank you very much!
>
>> On my system,
>> /etc/localtime is a copy of /usr/share/zoneinfo/EST5EDT , not a link.
>>
>
> Can you do me a favor type
>
> ls -lai /etc/localtime
> ls -lai /usr/share/zoninfo/EST5EDT
>
> See if the inode number (the 1st column) is the same or not.
> If they are the same, then /etc/localtime is a hardlink (not symbolic
> link).
> If they are different, then /etc/localtime is a copy of a file.
> Thank you again.
>
> --Raymond
It seems to vary. These are 2 systems. Mandrake 7.0 (copy):
$ ls -lai /usr/share/zoneinfo/CST6CDT
32076 -rw-r--r-- 3 root root 1262 Sep 5 2000
/usr/share/zoneinfo/CST6CDT
$ ls -lai /etc/localtime
96211 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1262 Oct 1 2000
/etc/localtime
SuSE 7.1 (hard link):
> ls -lai /usr/share/zoneinfo/CST6CDT
953520 -rw-r--r-- 4 root root 1279 Jan 19 00:16
/usr/share/zoneinfo/CST6CDT
> ls -lai /etc/localtime
953520 -rw-r--r-- 4 root root 1279 Jan 19 00:16
/etc/localtime
--
David Efflandt (Reply-To is valid) http://www.de-srv.com/
http://www.autox.chicago.il.us/ http://www.berniesfloral.net/
http://cgi-help.virtualave.net/ http://hammer.prohosting.com/~cgi-wiz/
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
