> Scenario: There are people who try to install Red Hat for the first
> time and discover that their devices are working. They generally get to
> where they have a console, but have no network or sound card or some
> other key component, especially if the network adapter is an old ISA
> NE2K or the like or the sound card requires some parameters to be set
> when the module is built. They ask their linux-expert friends who say
First, if they did a network install, then networking will work upon reboot.
If that is the case, they have the ability to get to the kernel-source
RPM. If they didn't do a network install, they can get the kernel-source
RPM off their CD.
> "go and build a kernel and set thus and such". Or they themselves are
> linux-expert, but are running Red Hat for the first time. They know
> nothing about RPM's yet, and their install manual contains nothing about
> building a kernel or configuring linux. They call Red Hat and get no
The Red Hat Installation Manual comes with our boxed set *and* is available
for download in PS and HTML format for free from our web site. Borders
even sells it by itself.
> help at all -- they are either told that the module they have should
> work or that the device in question isn't supported (in spite of the
> fact that their friends tell them that the device works fine if properly
> set up or that they used it a week earlier on the same machine before
> "upgrading" to Red Hat).
Again, we're talking about the difference between "Red Hat" supported
devices and "kernel" supported devices. Those aren't always the same
thing.
> Is it so crazed to want new users in this category to have a choice
> during the install in the form of a single panel that says something
> like:
>
> ======================================================================
> Click the button below to install the kernel sources. You might want
> to install the kernel sources if:
>
> a) You have trouble getting a particular device to work and Red Hat
> support is unable to help you and you want to try it yourself;
> b) You have an unusual or experimental device and would like to try
> building a kernel or module to support it;
> c) You wish to build and operate an SMP kernel. Note that Red Hat
> does not directly support SMP linux, but that in many cases it works
> well. To obtain support and help for SMP operation, one can visit the
> linux-smp FAQ at:
>
> http://www.irisa.fr/prive/mentre/smp-faq/
>
> and optionally join the linux-smp list.
>
> <Install Kernel Source>
>
> ======================================================================
I just don't see that as very useful for *most* people. Many who have
this weird hardware problem that you speak of don't know they will have
it until they are installed and would probably say 'no' to this question.
The question is *completely* irrelevant for SMP for our next release
as it will likely have SMP support out of the box and will install the
proper kernel *for you*.
If you have an unusual device and know you want to build a kernel for
it then you should have the sense to do individual package selection and
turn the dang thing on. Or do "Everything".
> I know that Red Hat doesn't want to acknowledge that a) is a
> possibility, but in my experience it is fairly commonplace. b) is also
I acknowledge that both are the case. I just don't think it's *generally*
commonplace, nor would that question help much.
> not uncommon -- there is constantly new hardware coming out, often with
> driver support on the side or in a recent kernel image. c) is, of
People should know what they want to do in that case, and can certainly
read the manual if they find out later they want to do that.
> course, the reason that this whole discussion started.
Which is irrelevant in our next release even though you seem to like to
keep arguing for no reason.
> I'm really not trying to pick a fight here -- I'm trying to point out a
> very real problem set and at the same time suggest a constructive
> solution. I've had the difficulty described above myself with Red Hat
If people *need* kernel source to get something to work that is supposed
to be supported, it is a bug that should be fixed. If people need kernel
sources for other things, it won't hurt them to learn how to install those.
We include documentation in the manual on how to do it.
Your argument is valid, except for the fact that it applies to most
EVERY package we ship. For example, should we have a screen that says:
"If you'd like to add support for your Mylex DAC-960, click yes and
we will install the sources for LILO, Fdisk, and the kernel. You can
get the patches you need from:
http://foo.bar.com
Click "No" to continue."
It's the *same* thing. Certainly to a smaller extent, but the same kind
of thing nonetheless. It's a question that might help some very small
percentage of users and will simply add cruft and confusion for some VERY
large percentage of users. We're quite intentionally trying to keep the
question count as low as possible in the normal install modes. If you
want to submit a patch that asks that question in expert mode only, then
we might put that in. Well, with the exception that this whole thing
is irrelevant in our next release wrt SMP anyway.
--Donnie
--
Donnie Barnes http://www.redhat.com/~djb [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Bah."
Challenge Diversity. Ignore People. Live Life. Use Linux. 879. V.
The more you cry, the less you'll pee.
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