I'm afraid my cynical nature is showing. On Mon, 2012-04-23 at 20:05 -0400, Dan Trevino wrote: > They're looking for developers. They choose Gainesville because it has > a flow of high tech trained talent, space, and probably for a number > of other business reasons. >
Jacksonville is a much larger city with plenty of space (or sprawl) and a larger pool of high-tech employees. I rather like the area around Gainesville, but the town empties out on weekends. It's not a major mine of high-tech talent. Most people graduate and leave. Even the I-4 and SR 520 corridors in Central Florida are pretty feeble compared to other states, and they beat out North Florida, which even so does better than the more populous South Florida. Heck, I have one dinky little software project and I can't get anyone technical to sign on to that, so excuse me if I grump. I cannot believe that technical resources were the #1 draw. > Sure, they don't have to pay Palo Alto rates here, but I'm sorry that > 400+ jobs at 80K-ish still isn't positive enough for you. > AVERAGE 80K. Take a dozen or so highly-paid executives, and it stops looking quite so good. A more honest accounting would be median salaries, not average salaries. Not that I think anything that keeps 400 people from working as telephone solicitors is bad (and when are they going to prosecute that "policeman" company here in town, anyway?). > And by the way, the cost of a lunch at subway isn't going to buy you > lunch for a week in India, especially not Bangalore. > I suppose it depends on where you eat, and I will admit that I haven't recalculated for recent inflation and exchange rates, but I've had no shortage of people telling me what they could buy for lunch with 47 rupees and the going salary rate for Java programmers up until about 2007 was 1 lakh/year experience. I should have said "5-day work lunches", and I don't pay $8 for lunch at home either. Still, I'm going to take a lot of persuading that things have changed so much that Gainesville and Bangalore even remotely overlap on cost of living. > My wife is from Kolkata. I've been to India (all over) 6 or 7 times in > the past 10 years (vacation and work). > > I invite you to visit because it's a great country. Just bring some > extra $ because it's going to cost you more than you think. > There's always medical vacations! > Dan > -- > Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Open Standard > http://gplus.to/dantrevino > > On Apr 23, 2012 7:35 PM, "Tim Holloway" <[email protected]> wrote: > On Mon, 2012-04-23 at 18:10 -0400, Dan Trevino wrote: > > A somewhat more positive story about software development > and > > gainesville/uf. > > > > > http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120327/articles/120329611 > > It is and it isn't. MindTree is based out of Bangalore, India > and what > they are doing is symptomatic of the times. First we sent jobs > by the > scores off-shore. Then it turned out that many of those > offshore project > needed feet on the ground locally, Some of that could be > managed by > shipping in H1-B or L-1 talent, but lately the H-1B in > particular has > come under a lot of scrutiny, so the Indians are hiring native > talent. > > The choice of Gainesville was probably as much because of its > value as a > "near-shoring" location as it was because of the educational > facilities. > Although there are some venerable technology companies located > in > Gainesville such as Barr, it's not a major high-tech hub. But > it does > have a semi-rural cost of living, which is a major point for > near-shoring. No place in the USA can compete with India on > cost of > living - the price of a sandwich, chips and Coke at Subway > would buy > lunch for a week in Bangalore, but rural locations can get > closer than > high-rent districts like Silicon Valley and Boston. > > For the record, I have no complaint with what MindTree or, for > that > matter, any of the other Indian companies are doing > (disclaimer: I own > stock in some of them). However, the forces that helped form > endeavors > like this are the selfsame forces that continue to put > downward pressure > on what had once been a very comfortable profession. Those > forces are > ultimately ourselves. > > Tim > > > > On Apr 23, 2012 5:39 PM, "A.Padilla" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Can't look at it as a trade. CS is a good degree but it > won't > > > guarantee you riches. It's what you do with the degree > that > > > determines how you'll end up. > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Tim Holloway > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I went 1 term at UF and never did do a CS class there. I > left because > > > > while there are a lot of appealing things about a large > and complex > > > > school and I enjoyed the academics and cultural > facilities, the student > > > > were entirely too grim. I could have found a friendlier > crowd in > > > > Manhattan at rush hour. Of course, I was also pushing 30 > at the time, > > > > which meant that by the reckoning of most students I was > in the advanced > > > > stages of mummification. > > > > > > > > Even back then, their programs struck me as a little > odd, being split > > > > mostly between the engineering and business schools. > They also hadn't > > > > yet discovered the C Programming Language, even though > I'd been teaching > > > > it at FJC a year or so earlier. Still, my jaw dropped > when I read the > > > > news about UF dismantling its CS department. > > > > > > > > I first heard of UCF at a meeting of the UF ACM chapter. > Every year > > > > there's a programming contest, and UCF was considered a > Force to Be > > > > Reckoned With. Later, I moved down to Orlando and > transferred to UCF and > > > > found out why. While I'm not a big fan of programming > contests as a > > > > measure of ability, the UCF ACM had a well-honed > machine, and it > > > > routinely did well against big-league competitors like > MIT and > > > > Singapore. > > > > > > > > I have a lot of respect for UCF's CS and engineering > programs, even > > > > though circumstances kept me from ever graduating. UCF > also established > > > > a proper research park in its vicinity. UNF tried to, > but about the best > > > > they could manage was an AOL call center. Speaking of > which, I'm sorry > > > > to report that I haven't exactly been inundated with > volunteers on my > > > > own little pet geek project. Are we really THAT > primitive around here? > > > > > > > > Anyway, regardless of the relative merits of various > colleges, the > > > > brutal fact is that CS is not the best of career choices > anymore. I > > > > think we've pretty much bottomed out on the offshoring > thing, but that > > > > doesn't mean that Happy Days are Here Again, or likely > to be so anytime > > > > soon. While it should be relatively easy to enter the > field while you're > > > > still at the bottom of your earnings potential and > willing to work > > > > insane hours, age discrimination and the Wal-Mart effect > on salaries > > > > mean that paying off that student loan may prove > difficult. Not that > > > > there are a whole lot of other professions that can > offer more hope > > > > right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Archive http://marc.info/?l=jaxlug-list&r=1&w=2 > > > > RSS Feed > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml > > > > Unsubscribe [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Archive http://marc.info/?l=jaxlug-list&r=1&w=2 > > > RSS Feed > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml > > > Unsubscribe [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Archive http://marc.info/?l=jaxlug-list&r=1&w=2 > RSS Feed > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml > Unsubscribe [email protected] > --------------------------------------------------------------------- Archive http://marc.info/?l=jaxlug-list&r=1&w=2 RSS Feed http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml Unsubscribe [email protected]
