On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 4:38 AM, Xen <x...@dds.nl> wrote: <snip>
> Currently I /can't/ work on Log4J because I have supplied a patch or at > least a request for comments on the Jira and I haven't had any feedback on > that. So how am I supposed to "go ahead and do stuff?". Okay it was also > because for a few days my emails didn't get through. > <snip> > I have asked in one of my emails whether there was a need for additional > Builder classes. I got no response to that, so I went ahead and devised one > of my own that I think would be handy, the most obvious one. I supplied a > Jira (and sent an email, but it didn't get through) and now I'm just still > in limbo. > <snip> I think we are also in limbo so to speak as to what to do WRT providing a programmatic interface for configuration. We have factory methods, a few builder classes, but probably not a clear road map. We all need to think about the big picture before we continue sprinkling builder classes all over the place. Should such an API be part of the Core or a new log4j-config module where all configuration code would sit? We probably still do not want it as part of the public API? Should the config API aim to configure the Core or any supported logging back-end? Surely we would only start with the Core and worry about the rest later. Or should we? I'm asking a lot of questions I know. How do we even discuss this via emails? That's a lot of writing! Is there are better way to discuss this instead? Gary > > > > Op 15-8-2015 om 2:27 schreef Ralph Goers: > > Bart, We spent over 2 years asking for feedback during which we had 13 > releases prior to the GA release. We changed, many, many things. While you > are free to criticize Log4j 2 it really doesn’t accomplish much unless you > provide concrete detail on what should be changed and then expend some > effort to do that. > > Projects in the Apache Software Foundation are run by what is > affectionately called a “do-ocracy” - If you see something broken you fix > it, if there is a feature you want you create it. Creating Jira issues and > posting emails is great but in the end doesn’t accomplish much if no one > does anything about it. Everyone who works on Apache projects is a > volunteer. We do it because we choose to and because we want to, not > because we have to. > > The bottom line is that I have a day job that takes more than 40 hours per > week of my time. I have a family that requires my attention. I want to > write code and solve people’s problems when I have the time to work on > Log4j. I simply don’t have time to read long emails that a) don’t ask me > how to solve a specific problem, b) don’t ask for a specific feature to be > implemented, c) don’t ask me how to explain how something works or d) don’t > say “What can I do to help”. > > Please don’t take responses to you as people being rude. Please take them > as we are all busy and want to use our time effectively. > > Ralph > > On Aug 14, 2015, at 3:02 PM, Xen < <x...@dds.nl>x...@dds.nl> wrote: > > I just think... trying to persuade people like that is very needy. > > Ralph (Goers) doesn't give me the impression like he's needy like that ;-). > > It is clear that the new version is a bit out of tune with the goals these > other projects might have. The requirements for a logging package should be > a lowest common denominator thing. If the product is good, the other > projects should notice anyway and take notice themselves. I would focus on > documentation and clarity. You're a bit at odds with the times I think. Do > you have the interests of your users in mind, or of someone else? That's > what makes it hard to give a recommendation because it's just impossible. I > mean "to become more popular". If you feel the need to advertize or say > "hey, don't forget about us" so badly, that just means.... > > Well anybody can figure that out for himself I guess. But I was looking at > a topic called Update trunk to Java 7 from last May and it didn't seem like > their was an urgent need to do so. > > Well it means you are on the wrong tract or not feeling confident. > > Maybe you really feel like you need a call for attention, but.... ... .. . > . . . .. ..... > > Everybody already knows you lol. Your name is well-known. It just seems > like everyone is stuck using 1.2. Stuckerdiestuckstuckstuck. You might want > to send out for an honest appraisal or feedback. > > Ask the question of whether Log4J 2 meets their goals. Ask the question of > whether 2.3 meets or met their goals. Ask the question of whether 2.4 meets > or will meet their goals. Ask what they want from a logging package. Don't > forget to mention the issues: Java 7. Public vs. Core -- do they like that? > Are they impressed by a separation of public versus implementation API? If > they have experience with the product, do they feel the need to use Core > functionality that is not normally directly accessible from Public?. Did > they feel their needs were respected when the move to 2 was made? Do they > feel the EOL of v1 has been a necessary or required or helpful thing?. What > are their needs and interests? How do they feel about having to use two > jars? I would seriously consider asking these questions, all of them. > > So don't ask for uptake, ask for feedback. I think that is the best > suggestion or advice I can offer. Ask them whether you are on the right > path. Ask this of your fellow Apache projects. Do that and you will do > well, or better, in the future. If such a thing as 'better' would exist, > but you can always do better than what you were before. > > And that's true of everyone everywhere. That's just true of life. > > Regards, B. > > > Op 14-8-2015 om 23:34 schreef Gary Gregory: > > Something to think about after we get 2.4 out the door... > > Do you think it appropriate for us to do some kind of outreach to other > Apache projects and say "hey, about about use log4j 2?" > > Gary > > -- > E-Mail: <garydgreg...@gmail.com>garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition > <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> > Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com > Home: http://garygregory.com/ > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory > > > > > -- E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com Home: http://garygregory.com/ Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
