Top-posting as I not responding to any particular statement.
I'm with Bryan on this. Doing an install in the classroom is a pointless activity. What are you going to teach? Install off optical disk? Install off USB image from an iso from the internet? Install from PXE? Install with kickstart? Something else? Then it's: Install minimal/desktop/server/something else? With or without KDE/Gnome? How about neither and go with Enlightenment or *box? However you do it, installation consists of making a bunch of choices in some front end with no two people in the room following along exactly the same, then watching rpm/deb unpack 500 - 2000 packages and take about 30 - 40 minutes to do it (assuming the training centre is using cheaper desktop from several generations back - this is the norm in classrooms) Once the install is done, what exactly has the trainer achieved? The student has either already done an install sometime before and learned nothing new, or watched a bunch of packages scroll by and now considers "Gee, a lot of packages goes into Linux" with close to zero understanding about any of it. People can easily learn and practice installs all they want in their own free time, it's fun figuring out new ways to do it or just how stripped down you can get a PXE image to be where Ansible can take over. None of which has any place in a classroom. And how would we examine this skill anyway, I can't think of any valid exam question for the topic. OP, I get the sense you think this topic is important and you would like it to be so. But folks who've taught this know that it isn't. Really, it's not a teachable or testable skill. On 03/02/2016 03:03, Bryan J Smith wrote: > dbclinton <[email protected]> wrote: >> All that is certainly true: there definitely are OEMs selling machines with >> Linux pre-installed. In fact, based on your list, far more than I'd >> imagined. > > Virtually everyone of any size does Linux these days ... > Including desktop, workstation and ... tada ... notebook! > >> I myself had very good experiences purchasing servers from Pogo >> Linux - they handled our image very efficiently. > > For servers, even Tier-1 Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc... all do Linux > pre-installed. As I hinted, at one point starting several years ago, > there were as many Tier-1 Servers shipping -- _paid_ ($$$) -- with > RHEL Server pre-installed as there were Windows Server. ;) > > So ... what's your point again? > >> Nevertheless, in my own experience, I've built systems from scratch >> starting with clean drives far more often than not. > > And Windows Server on bare metal continues to dwindle. > > Again ... what's your point again? > >> In any case, I wonder how many newcomers to Linux had their *first* >> exposure through the purchase of a new PC with Linux installed rather >> than via a live USB session. > > Actually, nearly all probably had _neither_. > They saw someone else's system, and they used it. > That was their *first* exposure. > > Honestly ... > > You've flopped all over the place and made "assumptions." Meanwhile, > those of us dealing with OEMs, users, training, services, etc... see > the "real statistics." We see Linux everywhere, and we use VMs, old > systems, etc... > > Case-in-point ... > > Anyone who is advocating _installing_ Linux either ... > > A) Is many, many years out-of-date, and/or > B) Really into InstallFests and just "installing" Linux > > I deal with both all-the-time, and the second I a "noob" away from > them, it's the _sooner_ they are actually "using" and actually > "learning" Linux. > > Installing Linux is _not_ learning Linux. It's teaching far, far more > about the PC than anything, and that is a _mess_. Installing an OS -- > let alone a PC OS -- has _no_ business in teaching an OS, honestly. > > Automation is the only things we teach, because it's more about > "system management" -- deployment, provisioning, etc... -- than Linux. > > That said, on the PC front, I hope Microservers take off, because they > should "clean up" the mess that is the x86-based PC. AMD, nVidia and > others are trying to set down some "standards" that will drastically > improve things. > > Of course, the few boards in sample I've come across have not been > well done ... so far. > > -- Alan McKinnon [email protected] _______________________________________________ lpi-examdev mailing list [email protected] http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-examdev
