Liyan –
From: Liyan Gong <gongli...@chinamobile.com> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2022 7:30 PM To: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsb...@cisco.com> Subject: Re:Re: [Lsr] Comments ondraft-gong-lsr-exclusive-link-for-flex-algo Hi Les, About your comments, My opinion is as below: 1）It does not change the base spf in order to support flex-algo, but avoid changes to base spf when flex-algo is deployed. [LES:] I do not care “why” you are changing the base SPF – it the fact that you are changing it at all that I find objectionable. 2）Do you mean that one flex-algo should be associated with an MT? If so, Is it too complicated? Deploying both flex-algo and MT at the same time will bring a lot of burden to IGP protocol. [LES:] I never mentioned “MT”. When I used the word “topology” I was referring to the set of nodes/links used by a particular flex-algorithm. A better terminology would be “constrained topology”. I suggest you read https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-20 and see how the word topology is used there. We still believe it is very necessary to find a suitable solution for the problem. According to the previous discussion, the key point is the backward compatibility. [LES:] No – the key point is that what you are doing is completely unnecessary. The problem you are trying to address has already been solved. Les It has been addressed in the new version using the existing mechanism which is consistent with RFC8042. Please refer to the latest version: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gong-lsr-exclusive-link-for-flex-algo/ Further comments are welcome. Thanks again. Best Regards, Liyan ----邮件原文---- 发件人："Les Ginsberg \\(ginsberg\\)<file://(ginsberg/)>" <ginsberg=40cisco....@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco....@dmarc.ietf.org>> 收件人："龚立艳" <gongli...@chinamobile.com<mailto:gongli...@chinamobile.com>>,Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.i...@gmail.com<mailto:jefftant.i...@gmail.com>>,shraddha <shrad...@juniper.net<mailto:shrad...@juniper.net>>,lsr <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>> 抄 送: (无) 发送时间：2022-08-20 22:11:51 主题：Re: [Lsr] Comments ondraft-gong-lsr-exclusive-link-for-flex-algo Liyan – I have stated this explicitly at least twice before – please do not twist my words. 1)Modifying the operation of the base SPF in order to add support for flex-algo MUST NOT be done. 2)Being able to use a topology for a given flex-algorithm which includes links that are excluded from the base (Algo 0) SPF is already possible. Please abandon your draft. Les From: 龚立艳 <gongli...@chinamobile.com<mailto:gongli...@chinamobile.com>> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2022 6:58 AM To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.i...@gmail.com<mailto:jefftant.i...@gmail.com>>; shraddha <shrad...@juniper.net<mailto:shrad...@juniper.net>>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsb...@cisco.com<mailto:ginsb...@cisco.com>> Subject: Re:Re: [Lsr] Comments ondraft-gong-lsr-exclusive-link-for-flex-algo Hi Les/All, Thanks for your specific suggestion for OSPF and IS-IS. Considering the difference between IS-IS and OSPF, How about seperating the draft into two parts? One is for IS-IS, using the maximum link metric. The other is for OSPF, using the extension U-bit. It can leverage the existing mechanism as much as possible. Personally speaking,I think it is better if one solution is used for both IS-IS and OSPF. It will be great to get further comments.Thanks again. Best Regards, Liyan ----邮件原文---- 发件人："Les Ginsberg \\(ginsberg\\)<file://(ginsberg/)>" <ginsberg=40cisco....@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco....@dmarc.ietf.org>> 收件人："龚立艳" <gongli...@chinamobile.com<mailto:gongli...@chinamobile.com>>,Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.i...@gmail.com<mailto:jefftant.i...@gmail.com>>,shraddha <shrad...@juniper.net<mailto:shrad...@juniper.net>>,lsr <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>> 抄 送: (无) 发送时间：2022-08-18 13:11:34 主题：Re: [Lsr] Comments ondraft-gong-lsr-exclusive-link-for-flex-algo Liyan – For IS-IS there is no need for a new mechanism to exclude a link from algo 0 SPF. On that we at least seem to agree. Changing Algo 0 SPF in order to accommodate a new requirement you have for flex-algo is simply wrong – which is why I still think your draft is not needed. What then remains, is whether there is any need in OSPF for the new “U-bit “ that you propose. I think not, but I will let my OSPF colleagues respond more specifically to that point. However, even if U-bit were deemed useful for OSPF, the reason for adding it would have nothing whatever to do with flex. The only justifiable reason would be that Algo 0 SPF required it. Les From: 龚立艳 <gongli...@chinamobile.com<mailto:gongli...@chinamobile.com>> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 7:01 PM To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.i...@gmail.com<mailto:jefftant.i...@gmail.com>>; shraddha <shrad...@juniper.net<mailto:shrad...@juniper.net>>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsb...@cisco.com<mailto:ginsb...@cisco.com>>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>> Subject: Re:Re: [Lsr] Comments ondraft-gong-lsr-exclusive-link-for-flex-algo Hi All, According to the comments, we have updated the draft to clarify these two solutions. SolutionA, The maximum link metric, which is backward compatible but may not work in OSPF, since the links with maximum link metric are not always treated as unreachable by OSPF routers. Besides, additional mechanisms are required for the Flex-Algorithm using IGP Metric in path calculation. SolutionB, The new extention, Which can avoid the above problems but backward incompatible, all nodes in the same area or level must support it. Each solution has its pros and cons. The co-authors would like more comments and suggestions from WG. Best Regards, Liyan ----邮件原文---- 发件人：Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.i...@gmail.com<mailto:jefftant.i...@gmail.com>> 收件人："Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco....@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco....@dmarc.ietf.org>>,"龚立艳" <gongli...@chinamobile.com<mailto:gongli...@chinamobile.com>>,"lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>" <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>,shraddha <shrad...@juniper.net<mailto:shrad...@juniper.net>> 抄 送: (无) 发送时间：2022-08-13 07:05:25 主题：Re: [Lsr] Comments ondraft-gong-lsr-exclusive-link-for-flex-algo +1 Cheers, Jeff From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco....@dmarc.ietf.org> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2022 9:05 AM To: 龚立艳<mailto:gongli...@chinamobile.com>; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>; shraddha<mailto:shrad...@juniper.net> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Comments ondraft-gong-lsr-exclusive-link-for-flex-algo Liyan – You agree that there is an existing way to prune links from the IGP SPF. Still, you insist that an extension that requires ALL routers – whether they support flex algo or not – to utilize a new advertisement when computing algo 0 SPF is necessary. Your rationale for this is that this allows you to use IGP Metric for flex algo in cases where the IGP metric would have been set to maximum. But we already have the ability to define metrics specific to flex algo – and this is greatly enhanced by the generic metric defined in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-bw-con/ Requiring a non backwards compatible extension to be used in base protocol operation in order to support a new feature is exactly what we MUST NOT do when introducing protocol extensions. My opinion is unchanged – this is a bad idea – and completely unnecessary. Les From: 龚立艳 <gongli...@chinamobile.com<mailto:gongli...@chinamobile.com>> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2022 2:16 AM To: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsb...@cisco.com<mailto:ginsb...@cisco.com>>; shraddha <shrad...@juniper.net<mailto:shrad...@juniper.net>> Subject: Re:Re: [Lsr] Comments ondraft-gong-lsr-exclusive-link-for-flex-algo Hi Shraddha and Les, Sorry for late reply and thanks for your comments. Yes, the maximum link metric mechanism is an option as described in section 4 of the draft. But, it has two defects which we also wanted to discuss in ietf 114 meeting. Firstly, it restricts the Flex-Algorithm from using IGP-Cost as its metric-type. Secondly, it does not work with OSPF. For OSPF,the links with maximummetric value(65535) are also included in the SPF calculation,even if not preferred. If there are no other preferred paths,the Flex-Algoritnm links will still affect the result of thenormal SPF calculation. Due to the time constraints,The presentation has been moved to the interim meeting on 2022-09-21. For more detail, please refer to the slides. https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/114/materials/slides-114-lsr-13-exclusive-link-for-flex-algo-00. In view of these two cases, new protocol extension becomes necessary. As for the backward incompatible issues, we think it can be avoided by deployment. For example, the new extension should be deployed in sync with the Flex-Algo feature, so that all the routers in one IGP domain will run the same software version. Looking forward to your reply. Best Regards, Liyan ----邮件原文---- 发件人："Les Ginsberg \\(ginsberg\\)<file://(ginsberg/)>" <ginsberg=40cisco....@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco....@dmarc.ietf.org>> 收件人：Shraddha Hegde <shraddha=40juniper....@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:shraddha=40juniper....@dmarc.ietf.org>>,"lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>" <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>> 抄 送: (无) 发送时间：2022-07-29 21:14:08 主题：Re: [Lsr] Comments on draft-gong-lsr-exclusive-link-for-flex-algo I fully agree with Shraddha. In fact Section 4 of the draft makes clear why no protocol extensions are needed. Les From: Lsr <lsr-boun...@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-boun...@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Shraddha Hegde Sent: Friday, July 29, 2022 2:18 AM To: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> Subject: [Lsr] Comments on draft-gong-lsr-exclusive-link-for-flex-algo Authors, I suggest that the usecase can be satisfied using the backward compatible Maximum link metric mechanism defined in the draft. I don’t see any need to define protocol extensions, that are backward incompatible and can cause serious issues in the network in the presence of older implementations. Rgds Shraddha Juniper Business Use Only
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