The funny thing about one of their meetings (Bach and Weiss along with
Kropffgans) was the BWV 1025 which is a lute sonata by Weiss to which Bach
obviously improvised (and later worked out) a violin part.
Improvising fugues and passacalias was common at their time (organists now
start to revive that tradition). The Passacalia is as the other bass models
basically a chordal pattern which could possibly be compared to the blues
scheme. Of course the general taste of the baroque was much more refined
and subtle than our taste today but improvising over a bass theme is more
or less "adding more or less prepared scales to a given scheme".
Best wishes
Thomas
"Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 11.04.2005 07:37:32
An: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>, "Stuart LeBlanc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Kopie:
Thema: Re: Blind players and memory
>Indeed, the fact of improvisation makes the reading vs. >memory argument
moot.
>Performance from memory mimics the act of spontaneous >creation that truly
occurs
>in improvisation.
" Memory, mimics spontaneous creation ". Sounds good, but doesn't
really
make any sense.
Performance from memory, and improvisation are two completely
different things, otherwise you wouldn't be improvising now would you? Why
did you need the sheet music in front of you? I'm assuming there might have
been three chords at the most to remember, with the rest filled in with
some
well tested scales.
The idea that you, or I, could come up with a masterpiece, or anything
worth writing down, whilst improvising is quite comical.
Weiss, and Bach, improvised together at least once. However they were
improvising in counterpoint, much different than some scales over a 13th
century chant.
I'm happy though, that you managed to charm the daylights out of your
guitar friend.
There is hope for us all!
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart LeBlanc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 9:43 PM
Subject: RE: Blind players and memory
>
> Indeed, the fact of improvisation makes the reading vs. memory argument
moot.
> Performance from memory mimics the act of spontaneous creation that truly
occurs
> in improvisation.
>
> Just a few hours ago I performed a concert based on 13th and 14th century
> repertoire associated with St. Francis of Assisi. (With sheet music).
> Afterward, an audience member who apparently listens to a lot of guitar
music
> expressed his great appreciation for the lute playing. I don't know if
it
was a
> revelation to him to have an emotional response to music performed from a
score,
> but he was certainly dumbstruck to learn that several of the solos I
performed
> were completely improvised.
>
> Maybe that $50 ticket should be spent not on Romeo and Juliet, but on
Hamlet:
>
> There are more things in heaven and earth Horatio,
> than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Thames [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 4:57 PM
> To: Arto Wikla
> Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: Re: Blind players and memory
>
>
> Arto,
> As I've said, I site read now more than I memorize. As having come
from
> a classical guitar back ground,where everyone memorizes, I found this
> lutenistic tradition of only site reading ( written in stone) a bit
> perplexing.
> I've asked for sources citing evidence for this lutenistic tradition,
> yet no one has come forward, with anything.
> Sorry to use the term amateur,or non professional, but I was not
using
> them in a derogatory way.
> As far as where you look,as your playing,I could careless. This is
all
> stage presence and up to each individual performer, to with as they see
fit.
> All I can say is most super star classical performers thesedays tend to
> memorize their music.
> If I want to hear the music I'll stay home and put on a CD, but if I
pay
> $50.00 a ticket I hope you could recite Romeo and Juliet,without a
script,
> between you,and the audience.
>
> Michael Thames
> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arto Wikla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 2:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Blind players and memory
>
>
>
> Dear Michael and all
>
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005, Michael Thames comments:
>
> > >This brings to mind another point in the debate about >performing from
> > memory or
> > >score. Ever notice how most guitarists stare at their >hands while
> > playing,
> > >while a few look into the rafters or close their eyes >(drawing divine
> > >inspiration, perhaps)? I wonder which exhibit greater
>professionalism
> >
> > I would say that you might want to consider the music above all.
> > However, it is nice to see a performer in a setting where one might get
> the
> > impression that it's he, or she, and the audience, and not a third
party
> > love affair with your sheet music.
>
> It is so difficult to me to take any offence, if someone is using the
> sheet music. It is in a way the contrary: When someone is playing a big
> program by hart, I am so worried, and also symphatise and pity the poor
> performer that it really diminishes my ability to relax and enjoy the
> music! An extreme case was in the Nordic Baroque Festival in 2001, where
> Pieter Wispelway had a concert, where he played ALL the six Cello Suites
> by certain J.S. Bach. He did it well, very well. But he played by heart,
> and that is why I was all the time very worried... ;-)
>
> And by the way, many times during the concert he was looking to the
> ceiling of the church, probably wishing help from the divine forces? ;)
>
> Anyhow, I would have enjoyed more of the conert, if he had had the music
> stand in front of him! It doesn't have mattered, if there were empty
> papers or today's newspaper on the stand...
>
> Summa summarum: If you improvise, you improvise. If you play - if
> you "repeat" - the music composed by another, you are perfectly allowed
> to use the sheet music. Why not? At least that does not diminísh MY
> experience...
>
> Arto
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>
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