Wound 6th courses do not last as long as gut strings, believe me. I think it is because in a wound string, you have 2 moving parts.... the metal winding, and then the floss core. They are actually moving parts, where in a gut string, the gut fibers are homogeneously bound. Gut basses last (seemingly) forever.
ed At 07:35 AM 4/14/2005 -0600, Michael Thames wrote: >After all this talk about strings, last night after playing for sometime I >began to notice my 6th course copper wound string wore thru the metal, right >where my thumb strikes it (half way between bridge and rose) and is coming >unraveled. second time in a year this has happened. Maybe I play too much. > Sterling Price told me he has the same strings on his lute today as >when he bought it from Donna Curry 10 years ago. Ed mentions 9 years. > The other wound basses are wearing smooth and will go at some point >soon as well. Oh well! > >Michael Thames >www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Wolfgang Wiehe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> >Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 1:00 AM >Subject: Re: lute outreach -tuning.. > > > > Good morning, > > some weeks ago on our traditional lute party in berlin i tried a > > gut-stringed lute. It was terrible, completely out of tune after contact > > with my finger tips (less than 10 sec). I tend to wet fingertips > > especially when I am stressed out. So I stay with my synthetics (mixture > > of nyl, carbon and copper wounded strings). > > My 7-c- lute is very stable in tune. My luthier (renatus lechner) told > > me that he works in his workshop with an air dehumidifier (30 - 40 % > > humiditiy). > > Greetings > > w. > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Edward Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. April 2005 19:25 > > An: Michael Thames; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > > timothy motz > > Betreff: Re: Antwort: Re: lute outreach -tuning.. > > > > Michael, > > > > I think humidity has a great deal to do with all the problems with gut. > > I > > live in northern Minnesota, and gut is a problem in the summer, due to > > high > > humidity. So, I keep 1 instrument in synthetic strings for the summer > > months. > > > > Michael, I am sorry that you had such a miserable experience with gut. > > I > > used to find it wildly un tunable & unstable, but for the past 9 years > > in > > gut, I have only had 2 bad tuning experiences. Unfortunately, one was > > last > > summer in Clevaland, at the LSA seminar, where Phil Rukavina & I > > performed > > the Valderrabano duets in gut. We acclimated the instrument & strings > > to > > air conditioning, but the AC was turned off due to noise, & tuning > > problems > > started from as the temp & humidity rose. The other problem was in > > Maui > > (yes, what a great gig! I was flown to Maui for 2 concerts in the > > winter).......... I left Minnesota in winter, & arrived in summer > > tropical > > climate. The baroque lute in gut took 4 days to even get it up to > > pitch! But, my vihuela, then in synthetics, had problems adjusting as > > well. > > > > Another point you brought up was the fingers ...... some people must > > have > > oils or other substances on their fingers, & they seem to be unable to > > handle gut, as it frays quickly, etc. I used to have this problem, but > > I > > find it manageable because I make certain I always wash my hands before > > picking up the instrument. Clean fingers make a difference. Also, I > > take > > care of my fingertips, making certain they are soft & smooth. Rough > > finger > > tips tear into gut badly. Being a builder, are your hands rough? > > > > On other occasions, I have traveled & toured using gut, & it has been > > every > > bit as stable as synthetics, but I arrived at least a couple of days > > before > > the gig. But, if one flies to a concert & performs that day, the > > climate > > change can make tuning a bit wacky. So, for a same-day concert, I would > > go > > with synthetics. > > > > Gut is not for everyone. It is a commitment in fantastic sound, with > > less > > compromise. lately, I am tempted to go back to synthetics, as it is > > much > > less fuss. > > > > ed > > > > > > > > At 10:44 AM 4/13/2005 -0600, Michael Thames wrote: > > > >If I remember right, Michael live in New Mexico. >Could the dry air > > > >there be the reason why he has such problems with tuning >in general > > > >and gut in particular > > > > > > Timothy, excellent point! After reading Kenneth's account of his > > >concert at 37,000 feet, and the confession that he couldn't keep the > > lute in > > >tune, finally makes sense. > > > My house sits at 7100 feet, and it's very dry here. The gut > > strings are > > >probably dry as a bone to begin with, and as I've said the problem > > with" in > > >tuneness" only happens as I begin to play, and introduce moisture from > > my > > >fingers, on to the strings. This could also happen to a lesser degree > > with > > >wound basses, and nylgut. > > > My apologies to all. However here in Taos, what you all were saying > > >seemed impossible. > > >Michael Thames > > >www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "timothy motz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 10:09 AM > > >Subject: Re: Antwort: Re: lute outreach -tuning.. > > > > > > > > > > >If I remember right, Michael live in New Mexico. Could the dry air > > > > there be the reason why he has such problems with tuning in general > > > > and gut in particular? > > > > > > > > I'm an absolute newbie both as a player and a builder, but I have > > > > very few problems with gut on my lute. Unless I'm playing it, most > > > > of the time it sits in its case. And, as Kenneth Be has reminded > > me, > > > > museums are the perfect environments for lutes. Kenneth and I both > > > > work in museums, and I keep my lute in the office during the week so > > > > I can practice during my lunch break. > > > > > > > > But even at home my lute is pretty stable. It's only when I put it > > > > in the car and take it to my lessons that it shifts much. > > > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---- Original Message ---- > > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >Subject: Re: Antwort: Re: lute outreach -tuning.. > > > > >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:26:46 -0600 > > > > > > > > > >> I have silver wound basses, and trebles and octaves are all > > > > >nylgut with > > > > >>one carbon first string. My lute usually hangs on the wall where > > I > > > > >play > > > > >>everyday, and would say it stays in tune remarkably well. But, I > > > > >always need > > > > >>to fine tune it the next day, or an hour into my practice session. > > > > >> Also I replace the first 2 single strings, after 2 or 3 months > > > > >because of > > > > >>indentations causing indentation problems > > > > >> The gut experience was horrific, I couldn't make it through one > > > > >piece > > > > >>without having to stop and tune, This lasted for two months. > > > > >Initially, the > > > > >>lute would go in tune and stay there fine, until I would begin to > > > > >play, then > > > > >>moisture from my fingers seemed to cause it to constantly go out. > > > > >I've > > > > >>always heard of great success stories with gut but, after talking > > to > > > > >Paul > > > > >>Odette, he said guts impossible to use in concert settings with > > > > >forced air > > > > >>heating and air conditioning. He uses nylgut. > > > > >> I saw Paul Odette take his lute out of the case in the master > > > > >class and > > > > >>immediately start tuning it up, and this was after he played a > > > > >concert the > > > > >>night before in Santa Fe. > > > > >> Same with Ronn McFarlane, he was tuning on stage. > > > > >>Michael Thames > > > > >>www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > > > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > > > >>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >>To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > > > >>Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 1:12 AM > > > > >>Subject: Antwort: Re: lute outreach -tuning.. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Hi Ed, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> it wasn't me stating something about people being > > > > >"pitch-challenged". > > > > >>> Actually I have had the same experience as you. After being > > > > >stretched > > > > >>> completely the nylguts I'm using on most of my lutes remain > > fairly > > > > >good in > > > > >>> tune and I often do not need to tune for several days. by the > > way: > > > > >the > > > > >>> remaining gut strings on my 10-course (which I just changed > > > > >recently) > > > > >>> stayed well in tune, too. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I don't like carbon strings because of their brightness - it's > > > > >just too > > > > >>> much and found that nylgut is a perfect compromise between the > > > > >sound of > > > > >>gut > > > > >>> and the practical advantages of a syntethic material. And after > > > > >being used > > > > >>> this synthetics I feel uncomfortable playing gut (just a bit as > > if > > > > >the > > > > >>> finger would be glued to the string). Kenneth told me he would > > > > >feel just > > > > >>> the other way round as he played on my 11-course (he have had > > gut > > > > >on his > > > > >>> renaissance lute which traveled with him to germany last year). > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Best wishes > > > > >>> Thomas > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Edward Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 13.04.2005 00:09:59 > > > > >>> > > > > >>> An: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Donatella Galletti > > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > > > > >>> lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > > > >>> Kopie: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Thema: Re: lute outreach -tuning.. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> In this discussion, I have found similar instances when string > > > > >stability > > > > >>> has been wonderful. Sometimes, I leave an instrument in the > > case > > > > >(all gut > > > > >>> strung baroque lute), and after no attention for a few months, I > > > > >open the > > > > >>> lid & to my astonishment, it is in remarkably good tune. This > > is > > > > >the > > > > >>> exception to the rule, but gut has a bad reputation. The newer > > > > >strings > > > > >>are > > > > >>> > > > > >>> more stable, in my opinion. Either that, or we are learning how > > > > >ti use it > > > > >>> better than before. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> In terms of string stability, carbon takes the prize for being > > the > > > > >most > > > > >>> stable string ever produced. It seems as though it is > > absolutely > > > > >>> impervious to temperature & humidity. I stopped using carbon > > > > >about 12 > > > > >>> years ago, but prior to that, the saying was that a lutenist > > could > > > > >apply > > > > >>> crazy glue to the pegs, because those strings are so stable that > > > > >they > > > > >>> almost require no tuning after being totally stretched out. > > They > > > > >were > > > > >>also > > > > >>> > > > > >>> durable, as I had a set on for around 9 years, without changing > > > > >strings > > > > >>> [even the trebles!], & they retained the same sound & trueness. > > > > >So, if > > > > >>you > > > > >>> > > > > >>> want practicality (tuning stability, longevity of string life) > > go > > > > >with > > > > >>> carbon. But, as Roman suggested, it is a rather "cold" sounding > > > > >>> string. It is loud and clear, as the high density increases its > > > > >>> efficiency. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Thomas has stated we are pitch challenged of lying about this, > > > > >that it is > > > > >>> impossible for an instrument to stay in tune after travel. I > > > > >believe > > > > >>Roman > > > > >>> > > > > >>> and Kenneth, as we have all had similarly good tuning > > experiences. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> ed > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> At 01:00 PM 4/12/2005 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > >>> >Donatella et Roman, > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > I the use same mixture of Nylgut and Pyramid > > > > >>> >strings on my ten course and find that it stays in > > > > >>> >tune remarkably well, although I'm not that crazy > > > > >>> >about the sound of the pyramid basses on this > > > > >>> >instrument. > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> >Roman - have you found this tuning stability to be > > > > >>> >typical with carbon? I'm thinking of stringing my > > > > >>> >theorbo at least partially with it. > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> >Chris > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> >--- Donatella Galletti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >>> > > My Hasenfuss- Weigert baroque is also "factory > > > > >>> > > tuned", as a gambist joking > > > > >>> > > told me. I hardly ever need to tune , especially if > > > > >>> > > I don't change keys or > > > > >>> > > if the weather is not too wet. I use a mixture of > > > > >>> > > Aquila and Pyramid > > > > >>> > > strings. > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > (Ok, "hardly ever" means every two, three days, but > > > > >>> > > I've just had a > > > > >>> > > wonderful wine with a dessert which is a specialty > > > > >>> > > from Piedmont and I feel > > > > >>> > > quite optimistic...) > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > Donatella > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > http://web.tiscali.it/awebd > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > >>> > > From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >>> > > To: "LUTE-LIST" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "Roman > > > > >>> > > Turovsky" > > > > >>> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >>> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:52 PM > > > > >>> > > Subject: Re: lute outreach > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > >1. Carbon strings held tuning throughout the > > > > >>> > > 10-hour >overnight ride to > > > > >>> > > > >Cleveland. 11th course octave was a little flat > > > > >>> > > in the >morning. I didn't > > > > >>> > > > >touch a peg for the rest of the weekend > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > So let me get this straight, your saying over a > > > > >>> > > three day period from > > > > >>> > > NY. > > > > >>> > > > In different rooms, hotel, houses, concert hall > > > > >>> > > etc. you didn't touch a > > > > >>> > > peg > > > > >>> > > > other than your 11th course. You are either > > > > >>> > > "pitch challenged", or prone > > > > >>> > > to > > > > >>> > > > spinning tall tales, most likely both! > > > > >>> > > > Michael Thames > > > > >>> > > > www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com > > > > >>> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > >>> > > > From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >>> > > > To: "LUTE-LIST" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > > > >>> > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:28 AM > > > > >>> > > > Subject: Re: lute outreach > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > P.S. > > > > >>> > > > > 2 interesting details: > > > > >>> > > > > 1. Carbon strings held tuning throughout the > > > > >>> > > 10-hour overnight ride to > > > > >>> > > > > Cleveland. 11th course octave was a little flat > > > > >>> > > in the morning. I didn't > > > > >>> > > > > touch a peg for the rest of the weekend. > > > > >>> > > > > 2. Our program is on a controversial side, and > > > > >>> > > it might (and should) > > > > >>> > > have > > > > >>> > > > > caused considerable consternation on the part of > > > > >>> > > clergy of 4 > > > > >>> > > denominations > > > > >>> > > > > present (including an archbishop). But > > > > >>> > > Mar'jana's act consisted largely > > > > >>> > > > from > > > > >>> > > > > the songs she collected at the Carpathian > > > > >>> > > fertility rites, which are > > > > >>> > > > > basically Pagan, and outright scabrous. Imagine > > > > >>> > > what was going on in > > > > >>> > > > > celibate heads. > > > > >>> > > > > RT > > > > >>> > > > > ______________ > > > > >>> > > > > Roman M. Turovsky > > > > >>> > > > > http://polyhymnion.org/swv > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > To get on or off this list see list information > > > > >>> > > at > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> >__________________________________________________ > > > > >>> >Do You Yahoo!? > > > > >>> >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > > > >>> >http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> >To get on or off this list see list information at > > > > >>> >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Edward Martin > > > > >>> 2817 East 2nd Street > > > > >>> Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > > > > >>> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >>> voice: (218) 728-1202 > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> CONFIDENTIALITY : This e-mail and any attachments are > > > > >confidential and > > > > >>> may be privileged. If you are not a named recipient, please > > > > >notify the > > > > >>> sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another > > > > >person, use > > > > >>> it for any purpose or store or copy the information in any > > medium. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edward Martin > > 2817 East 2nd Street > > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202
