OK Kiddies!
If you guys have nothing to say that a. doesn't include personal attacks
and b. relates to lutes; Why don't you take it off-list? I lie a flame war
as much as the next fellow (ie. Not at all) but this grows tiresome.
I mostly lurk on the list, unless some one spouts some anti-guitar trash
and thereby rattles my cage, and have found interest and sound information
in both of your posts in the past. It is, however, getting to the place
where I delete when I see your names.
PEACE BROTHERS!!
Joseph Mayes
On 4/20/05 1:32 PM, "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> 'Fraid not. Only one luthier does, and I wouldn't let his >name be tainted
>> by
>>> being in the same e-mail message with yours.
>>> In general lutes reflect their makers' personalities. >Imagine, a boor with
>>> no sense of beauty, and a sloppy speller in a lute, a recipe >for
>>> disaster.......
>>> RT
>> I have a great sense of beauty, I'm the one who can see the difference in
>> lute bodies, and I don't say they all look the same.
>> I recall seeing one of your paintings, it was a tortured, dark thing, no
>> hint a beauty if I recall, reflecting the maker.
> FYI, in Art (if you knew what it is) darkness is often a thing of beauty.
>
>
>
>> Here in Northern NM, everyone is just like you a pseudo artist.
> FYI, I don't live in Northern NM, so I cannot relate to you predicament.
>
>
>
>> I'll make a deal with you... You make a painting, I'll make a guitar,
>> and we'll see how fast, and how much both sell for. Don't quit your daytime
>> job!
> FYI, in order to be eligible to apply for my daytime job I had to execute a
> 4'x6' copy of a Fragonard painting in 8 hours. Out of 70 contestants 3 were
> accepted.
> As to a contest with you: only when you can come up with something original,
> not a standardized piece of wood.
> RT
>
>
>
> ______________
> Roman M. Turovsky
> http://turovsky.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>>>> This may be true of your art work, but certainly is not >>the case for
>>>>>> lute makers.
>>>>> Real luthiers are intelligent enough to see where the >originals were
>>>>> imperfect, both acoustically and aesthetically (note the >spelling for
>>>> future
>>>>> reference). Ditto real artists, hence no copying for me.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it would help you to copy something, it can lay the ground work
>>>> for abstract crap.
>>> It would help you to find out that I don't do abstraction (and my student
>>> practice included a fair amount of copying).
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I use whole brain for that. In you microcephalic case it >would help to
>>>> drive
>>>>> to Santa-Fe to see some local kitsch to get at least some >idea what a
>>>>> picture looks like
>>>> Santa Fe is full of pop artist's who paint cowboy and Indian's for the
>>>> most part, you might fit right in.
>>> I suppose your cognitive skill are insufficient to tell Western from
>>> Abstract. Hmmmm......
>>>
>>>
>>>> The exception is Georgia O'Keeffe. Whom BTW I had the honor to play
>>>> lute for one evening long ago.
>>> How much did she tip you?
>>>
>>>>>> BTW, is your Brunner a slavish copy?.
>>>>> No it is not. It has an Edlinger shell, my preference.
>>>>> RT
>>>> Wow! I guess putting a Brunner triple head on a Edlinger shell is
>>>> not copying? Then I guess I qualify as a luthieretic genius as well, by
>>>> putting a Brunner extension on my Widhalm. Does that qualify me for
>> your
>>>> special realm of true artist's?
>>> 'Fraid not. Only one luthier does, and I wouldn't let his name be tainted
>> by
>>> being in the same e-mail message with yours.
>>> In general lutes reflect their makers' personalities. Imagine, a boor with
>>> no sense of beauty, and a sloppy speller in a lute, a recipe for
>>> disaster.......
>>> RT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> The differences between slender lutes's shells like Schelle, >Tielke,
>>>> Frei
>>>>>>> are so visually insignificant, that luthiers do as they please >with
>>>> their
>>>>>>> nomenclatures. And the best ones' designs are original >rather than
>>>> slavish
>>>>>>> copies.
>>>>>>> RT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This may be true of your art work, but certainly is not the case for
>>>>>> lute makers.
>>>>> Real luthiers are intelligent enough to see where the originals were
>>>>> imperfect, both acoustically and aesthetically (note the spelling for
>>>> future
>>>>> reference). Ditto real artists, hence no copying for me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If your eye can't pick out the subtle differences in body
>>>>>> shapes, just within Schelle's lutes alone, not to mention, Frei Teilke
>>>> etc,
>>>>>> then I would check in to a continuing adult educational basic drawing
>>>> course
>>>>>> at your local high school. Or try drawing from the right side of your
>>>> brain.
>>>>> I use whole brain for that. In you microcephalic case it would help to
>>>> drive
>>>>> to Santa-Fe to see some local kitsch to get at least some idea what a
>>>>> picture looks like.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, is your Brunner a slavish copy?.
>>>>> No it is not. It has an Edlinger shell, my preference.
>>>>> RT
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tell me something I don't know. As the original Schelle doesn't
>>>>>>>>>> have a bass rider the I think that goes unsaid.
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Thames
>>>>>>>>> The page at
>>>>>>>> http://www.polyhymnion.org/swv/adue.html
>>>>>>>>> has a photo of 2 Schelle lutes, 11 and 13c. Both have an >unusual
>>>>>> feature
>>>>>>>>> known by the Schelle's name, but you knew that, of >course.
>>>>>>>>> RT
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes Roman, I do know that, the pegbox extends past the fingerboard
>> on
>>>>>>>> the bass side. I have photos of the Yale Schelle on my website as
>>>> well.
>>>>>>>> I was asking about the shape of Barto's lute, not the pegbox, as I
>>>>>>>> don't really like the ascetics of Schelle's pegbox design, I
>> wouldn't
>>>>>> use it
>>>>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>>>> Michael Thames
>>>>>>>> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
>>>>>>> The differences between slender lutes's shells like Schelle, Tielke,
>>>> Frei
>>>>>>> are so visually insignificant, that luthiers do as they please with
>>>> their
>>>>>>> nomenclatures. And the best ones' designs are original rather than
>>>> slavish
>>>>>>> copies.
>>>>>>> RT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________
>>>>>>> Roman M. Turovsky
>>>>>>> http://polyhymnion.org/swv
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ken Brodkey, just emailed and told me Andy Rutherford, told
>> him,
>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>>> though
>>>>>>>>>>>> on the program last year at the LSA, said it was a Schelle, it
>>>> was
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Warwick Frei, that barto's using.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Thames
>>>>>>>>>>>> The simple reason for the confusion is that it is based on
>>> BOTH.
>>>>>>>>>>>> RT
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What, with the Frei shape, and Schelle, ribs?
>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Thames
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lutes have other parts, such as pegboxes,etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RT
>>>>>>>>>> Tell me something I don't know. As the original Schelle doesn't
>>>>>>>>>> have a bass rider the I think that goes unsaid.
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Thames
>>>>>>>>> The page at
>>>>>>>>> http://www.polyhymnion.org/swv/adue.html
>>>>>>>>> has a photo of 2 Schelle lutes, 11 and 13c. Both have an unusual
>>>>>> feature
>>>>>>>>> known by the Schelle's name, but you knew that, of course.
>>>>>>>>> RT
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Schelle lute
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ken Brodkey, just emailed and told me Andy Rutherford, told
>> him,
>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>>>> though
>>>>>>>>>>>> on the program last year at the LSA, said it was a Schelle, it
>>>> was
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Warwick Frei, that barto's useing.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Thames
>>>>>>>>>>>> The simple reason for the confusion is that it is based on
>>> BOTH.
>>>>>>>>>>>> RT
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What, with the Frei shape, and Schelle, ribs?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Thames
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lutes have other parts, such as pegboxes,etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RT
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ______________
>>>>>>>>>>> Roman M. Turovsky
>>>>>>>>>>> http://polyhymnion.org/swv
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ken Brodkey, just emailed and told me Andy Rutherford, told
>> him,
>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>>>> though
>>>>>>>>>>>> on the program last year at the LSA, said it was a Schelle, it
>>>> was
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Warwick Frei, that barto's useing.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Thames
>>>>>>>>>>>> The simple reason for the confusion is that it is based on
>> BOTH.
>>>>>>>>>>>> RT
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roman M. Turovsky
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://polyhymnion.org/swv
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ed
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> At 07:51 PM 4/19/2005 -0600, Michael Thames wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not know, but Paul O'Dette also used a Sebastian
>>>>> Schelle
>>>>>>>>>>>> instrument
>>>>>>>>>>>> when I saw him last week in St Paul. it had a bass rider,
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> 70
>>>>>>>>>>>> cm
>>>>>>>>>>>> mensur.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ed
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ed, When Paul was here in December, he told me it was a
>> Frei,
>>>>>> bass
>>>>>>>>>>>> rider.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe he got a new one?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Thames
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Edward Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Lute
>> net"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 5:02 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Schelle lute
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not know, but Paul O'Dette also used a Sebastian
>> Schelle
>>>>>>>>>>>> instrument
>>>>>>>>>>>> when I saw him last week in St Paul. it had a bass rider,
>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> 70
>>>>>>>>>>>> cm
>>>>>>>>>>>> mensur.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ed
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> At 09:04 AM 4/19/2005 -0600, Michael Thames wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone out there happen to know which Schelle, Andy
>>>>>>>>>> Rutherford
>>>>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>>>>> for Barto's lute?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Thames
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Edward Martin
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2817 East 2nd Street
>>>>>>>>>>>> Duluth, Minnesota 55812
>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>>>>>>> voice: (218) 728-1202
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Edward Martin
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2817 East 2nd Street
>>>>>>>>>>>> Duluth, Minnesota 55812
>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>>>>>>> voice: (218) 728-1202
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
