> However, I can't imagine > the intonation being better when you play 6th course-5th fret, > compared to > 5th course-open.
On the other hand, maybe you tune it to be correct at those frets where it's stopped because: a) it sounds horrible as open b) if your thumb 'lives' somewhere on the bottom course, that becomes the "open" string. c) ?? The rates are lovely at the Hotel Speculation this time of year, aren't they? Sean > > Does anyone have any ideas about this? > Nancy Carlin > >>> Sean-- >>> >>> You wrote: >>>> I think some pieces in Spinacino are modified 5c reductions >>>> since they >>>> are high on the neck and only sneak in the 6th course rarely for a >>>> Bb >>>> on the 6th course (eg, Vostre a maistres, O venus bant, Amours >>>> amours >>>> and others). Never in those pieces is it an open 6th course which >>>> could >>>> have moved the tessitura of the song down a 4th making them SO much >>>> easier. These are very decorated versions of 3-voice chansons so >>>> perhaps w/ less decoration 4-voice songs were also possible. >>> >>> I'm not familiar with the pieces, but I'm wondering if >>> lowering the >>> fifth course one tone for an open Bb makes things easier, as with >>> some >>> 6-course pieces with G lowered to F? >> >> I have no doubt that they would have lowered the lowest course as >> necessary (or courseS, cf. Dalza). The smaller neck also makes it easy >> to get that left thumb on the 5th course. Ganassi (c1530) give lots >> of >> different different tunings for viols w/ different missing strings and >> we know that he was a lutenist, too. Then there is the ongoing >> question >> of how early fiddles were tuned. Judging from the relatedness of the >> vihuela de mano and v. de arco I'm sure there was a mishmash of >> personal preferences of 4ths or 5ths (and 3rds) and where to put them. >> And judging again from the current varieties personal tastes of >> tunings, it would be absurd to say "This is how X tuned Y in the year >> Z >> in the year N" >> >> A Spinacino tangent: I'm surprised at one aspect of pieces that could >> be played predominantly on the first 5 courses that only ocassionally >> use the 6th: The odd thing is that the lowest course is never an open >> course: 1st fret, 2nd, 3rd --but _never_ open. Both solos and duos >> (ok, >> the only duo superious that uses the 6th open is De tous biens playne, >> hmmm). Any ideas for this folks? >> >> In the new book of Consort music recently published by the Lute >> Society, Jon Banks (rightly) offers it in mensural notation --as it >> was >> in contemporary sources. You tune your lute as you see fit. >> >> all the best, >> Sean >> >> >>> >>> On 3/11/06 1:03 PM, "Sean Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Dear Arne, >>>> >>>> I was just looking at Tinctors' single line 'solos' over popular >>>> tenors >>>> taken from the Segovia. (from his collected works. No, I didn't get >>>> the >>>> editor information but will next time if you'd like it). To my eye >>>> it's >>>> obviously for lute --or bowed instrument if you're very handy. As >>>> Jon >>>> Banks points out in his article in Early Music (May 1999 --thanks >>>> Stewart!) these decorated lines are in the gathering that he thinks >>>> are >>>> for lute duos and they certainly feel like it. >>>> >>>> He must have been quite a player judging from their intricacy so >>>> I'll >>>> assume he knew what he was talking about. On the other hand, each of >>>> the decorations fit perfectly on a descant (plucked) instrument of 5 >>>> courses but these, as I said, are decorations over the tenor. >>>> >>>> If Paumann had been playing solos on his lute 30 years previous, and >>>> had this rumored 7th course, then there is plenty of time to develop >>>> techniques to play complete chansons on a single instrument and >>>> reach >>>> the level of sophistication that Spinacino prints. Judging from the >>>> various styles, I suspect he was drawing from a variety of >>>> lutenists. >>>> >>>> I think some pieces in Spinacino are modified 5c reductions since >>>> they >>>> are high on the neck and only sneak in the 6th course rarely for a >>>> Bb >>>> on the 6th course (eg, Vostre a maistres, O venus bant, Amours >>>> amours >>>> and others). Never in those pieces is it an open 6th course which >>>> could >>>> have moved the tessitura of the song down a 4th making them SO much >>>> easier. These are very decorated versions of 3-voice chansons so >>>> perhaps w/ less decoration 4-voice songs were also possible. >>>> >>>> I suspect that what we don't know about this era and the lute would >>>> fill a very educational book. >>>> >>>> all the best, >>>> Sean Smith >>>> >>>> ps, sorry if this is a duplicate; I didn't see it show up on the >>>> list >>>> yet. >>>> >>>> On Mar 11, 2006, at 7:27 AM, Arne Keller wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear All, >>>>> >>>>> in the first part of David van Edward's fascinating lute history it >>>>> is >>>>> mentioned that: >>>>> >>>>> "Later, c.1481-3, Tinctoris mentions a sixth course and there are >>>>> even >>>>> tablatures from this period calling for a seven course lute, though >>>>> no >>>>> pictures from so early show one." >>>>> >>>>> Which tablatures are these? Any pics/transcriptions/descriptions >>>>> online? >>>>> >>>>> "During the second half of the l5th century, there was a change to >>>>> playing >>>>> with the fingertips, though, as Page (1981) pointed out, the two >>>>> methods >>>>> continued for some time side by side. Tinctoris (c.1481-3) wrote of >>>>> holding >>>>> the lute 'while the strings are struck by the right hand either >>>>> with >>>>> the >>>>> fingers or with a plectrum', but did not imply that the use of the >>>>> fingers >>>>> was a novelty. However, the change was very significant for the >>>>> lute's >>>>> future development, for it allowed the playing of several parts at >>>>> once, >>>>> and meant that the huge repertoire of vocal part music both sacred >>>>> and >>>>> secular became available to lute players. This function was made >>>>> easier by >>>>> the invention about this time of special systems of notation known >>>>> as >>>>> tablature into which much of this repertoire was transcribed >>>>> [intabulated]. >>>>> There were three main kinds of tablature for the lute, developed in >>>>> Germany, France and Italy respectively. A fourth early system, >>>>> 'intavolatura alla Napolitana', was also used from time to time. Of >>>>> the >>>>> four main types the French may have been the earliest." >>>>> >>>>> Why is that? >>>>> >>>>> "The German one was probably written during the lifetime of Conrad >>>>> Paumann >>>>> (d 1473), the supposed inventor of the system. Although Tinctoris >>>>> had >>>>> mentioned a six-course lute, these first tablatures, and indeed the >>>>> very >>>>> names by which the strings of the instrument were known, suggest >>>>> five >>>>> courses as still the most usual number at this time." >>>>> >>>>> Tinctoris also says (I believe it must be in the same treatise) >>>>> that >>>>> four-part playing was taking place. >>>>> I don't suppose four parts are possible without the 6th course? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Any ideas? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best greetings, >>>>> >>>>> Arne Keller. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> > > Nancy Carlin Associates > P.O. Box 6499 > Concord, CA 94524 USA > phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 > web site - www.nancycarlinassociates.com > Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA > web site - http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org > > -- >
