Craig
Of course walnut oil comes form walnuts. The local village where my
wife comes from presses, walnuts for the oil. Olive oil comes from
olives, doesn't prevent the olive wood from being oily. It is not the
sound of the gun that was being referred to (I believ) but a certain
cushioning of the recoil, and the non-fracturing of the stock. The
message does not actually mention oilyness, but the association with
teak, and the fact that olive wood is so oily (and its fruits produce
oil) made me think perhaps this was also the case of walnut.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic/
browse_thread/thread/dee77fd44d6142a/562990314731bb57?lnk=st&q=stained
+woods+to+replace++ebony&rnum=2&hl=fr#562990314731bb57
Guitar woods Groupe : rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
Groupes de discussion : rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
De : MICHAEL BOISSEVAIN
Objet : Re: Guitar woods (esp Walnut)
I have a serious question here about walnut. I have been
seriously leaning toward walnut as a tonewood for a guitar
which I hope to order in the next few months. I just liked
the *idea* of walnut, i.e. its origin, its appearance, etc.
Well, recently I spoke to a (relatively new) luthier who worked
for a large high-end guitar company. (I won't mention names or
locations here, so as to avoid any flaming anyone.) He said that
this company had a large run of Oregon walnut guitars in a number
of sizes, and that they had mostly all been "duds". He felt that
walnut was an excellent sound absorber (kind of like teak), rather
than a sound reflecter, and provided the example of rifle stocks,
where walnut is the most common wood, ostensibly because of its
ability to absorb vibration. For this reason, he does not offer
walnut as a choice in his guitars.
It would be great to hear some comments on this from experienced
luthiers. I still like the idea of walnut, but I would
hate to order the guitar of a lifetime, and end up with a "dud".
- Afficher le texte des messages precedents -
The replies contradicted CB's assertions, as you have. I was just
reporting
both points of view.
Regards
Anthony
Le 16 fevr. 07 =E0 07:29, Craig Robert Pierpont a ecrit :
> Anthony,
> People say all kinds of stuff. The similarity between walnut and
> teak is that they both come from trees. (Walnut oil comes from
> walnuts.) As far as gunstocks are concerned, did you ever hear a
> quiet gun? So it follows that walnut must make a loud instrument.
>
> Craig
>
> Craig R. Pierpont
> Another Era Lutherie
> www.anotherera.com
>
> Anthony Hind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rob
> I love the look and feel of walnut. So if it works that could be
> excellent. However, there was some difference of opinion on the
> guitar construction site, as to whether walnut sounded well or not.
> Some claimed they had made, or heard, excellent walnut guitars,
> others suggested that if walnut was chosen for rifle buts, it is
> because it kills resonance and absorbs shocks. They seemed to claim
> this was because it is an oily wood, as they associated it with teak,
> which they also claimed resonates poorly.
> I assume, if this is true, the same would be true of olive wood. If
> the oil is the reason, perhaps there might be ways of removing it,
> and some walnut-types might be less oily;
> so I imagine that the type of walnut, and what part of the tree is
> used would also be very significant. Certainly, the only way to be
> sure is to experiment.
> Regards
> Anthony
>
>
> Le 15 fevr. 07 =E0 16:27, Rob Dorsey a ecrit :
>
> > Anthony,
> >
> > No, not to my knowledge but that doesn't mean it did not happen. My
> > point
> > is, as a confirmed lute heretic awaiting the gallows, what
> > difference does
> > it make if it was not used 400 years ago? It's here and available
> > now, where
> > we live, and could make nice instruments of perhaps lower cost
> > whilst losing
> > nothing in acoustics or appearance. In fact it might be nicer than
> > some
> > historically correct woods.
> >
> > One builder's opinion. I could be wrong.
> >
> > Rob Dorsey
> > http://RobDorsey.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Anthony Hind [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 9:30 AM
> > To: Rob Dorsey; Martin Shepherd
> > Cc: Lute Net
> > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: ebony etc
> >
> > Rob et al
> > Are there any known historical examples of this? Of course even if
> > there
> > aren't, that would not exclude the possibilty that some did exist,
> > with none
> > having survived.
> > Regards
> > Anthony
> > Le 15 fevr. 07 =E0 15:00, Rob Dorsey a ecrit :
> >
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> I have often and long wondered why we do not use walnut for lutes
> >> as a
> >> body wood. It certainly is as hard as maple, particularly the
> >> birdseye, and has a beautiful nominally dark hue. I imagine a
> walnut
> >> body with holly spacers under a fairly clear varnish as being
> lovely.
> >> There are so many variations of walnut in color and figure so as to
> >> provide a pallet of choices from which the client and builder might
> >> choose. If time allowed I'd make one on spec for proof of concept.
> >> Perhaps before LSA next year.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Rob Dorsey
> >> http://RobDorsey.com
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Anthony Hind [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:23 AM
> >> To: Martin Shepherd; Lute Net
> >> Subject: [LUTE] ebony etc
> >>
> >> Martin
> >>
> >> As you know I am not a specialist, but found a few sites where
> > guitar
> >> makers are raising the same questions as you are. They appear to be
> >> looking at cherry, walnut, and redwood.
> >>
> >> I am not sure what woods they are hoping to replace with these.
> >>
> >> However, I heard that some lute makers might be using rifle stock
> >> wood
> >> to replace ebony. I think it is a form of walnut : Highly Figured
> >> Claro Walnut ~ Gun Stock Wood
> >>
> >> http://www.ca-walnutdesigns.com/products/products.htm
> >>
> >> Here are a few quotes about walnut, followed by remarks on
> >> persimmon (
> >> a local American ebony-type) :
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> Anthony
> >>
> >> http://crab.rutgers.edu/~pbutler/rebec.html
> >>
> >> The fingerboard, tail, endpeg, and bridge all are carved from black
> >> walnut wood to contrast with the body - cheaper for the model than
> >> the
> >> ebony I would have otherwise used, and definitely easier to find.
> >> The body was stained with a wood oil, both for color and sealing
> the
> >> wood, but no varnish was applied.
> >>
> >> However, there is a problem with walnut according to the
> following :
> >>
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic/
> >> browse_thread/thread/dee77fd44d6142a/562990314731bb57?
> >> lnk=st&q=stained
> >> +woods+to+replace+ebony&rnum=2&hl=fr#562990314731bb57
> >>
> >> Well, recently I spoke to a (relatively new) luthier who worked
> for a
> >> large high-end guitar company. (I won't mention names or locations
> >> here, so as to avoid any flaming anyone.)He said that this company
> >> had
> >> a large run of Oregon walnut guitars in a number of sizes, and that
> >> they had mostly all been "duds". He felt that walnut was an
> >> excellent
> >> sound absorber (kind of like teak), rather than a sound reflecter,
> >> and
> >> provided the example of rifle stocks, where walnut is the most
> common
> >> wood, ostensibly because of its ability to absorb vibration. For
> this
> >> reason, he does not offer walnut as a choice in his guitars.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Reply
> >>
> >> I have a guitar that is made completely of Walnut. Walnut back and
> >> sides, walnut top, walnut neck, and even walnut tuning knobs.
> Believe
> >> me, it is not a dud. The walnut top is clear, distinct, cannot be
> >> overdriven, highs and lows are very seperate, each with great
> >> fundementals. The overtones are certainly not as dominant as one
> >> would
> >> find on redwood or englemen, but they are there.
> >>
> >>
> >> The hard one to replace will be ebony. The 'local' variety,
> >> persimmon,
> >> is most usually white, although you can find logs with some dark
> grey
> >> streaking. Look at Henry's myrtle/spruce classical in the 'Student
> >> Gallery' on my web site to
> >> see a nice piece of persimmon used as a fingerboard. The white
> >> stuff is nice and hard, we just have to figure out how to stain it.
> >>
> >> Have you tried Black saddle dye in coats? I am not a luthier but I
> >> bought a bum-around guitar-a Martin DM and stained the Indian
> >> rosewood
> >> fingerboard and bridge with this dye and it looks like ebony from a
> >> few feet away-of course, white wood may not take the dye.
> >>
> >> Alan Carruth / Luthier
> >> http://www.alcarruthluthier.com
> >>
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.guitar/browse_thread/thread/
> >> 39d81be8892a6b79/3444368f9a812342?lnk=st&q=stained+woods+to+replace
> >> +ebony&rnum=5&hl=fr#3444368f9a812342
> >>
> >> You can use ebanol from http://www.stewmac.com it makes rosewood
> look
> >> like ebony.
> >> it probably wasn't a mahogany fingerboard, most likely rosewood, or
> >> one of the cheaper woods typically used.
> >> ebanol will stay on, stain wont stay on.
> >>
> >>
> >> Patrick K wrote in message
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.bartruff.com/services.php
> >>
> >> Currently good stocks of ebony come from India which has a non-
> >> threatened status for its species of Diospyros. But obviously, if
> >> every instrument maker rushes out to buy the Indian stock, there
> will
> >> be a problem.
> >>
> >> So, I use a little trick. Ordinary US grown persimmon certified by
> >> the
> >> Forest Stewardship Council (FSC) as sustainably grown can be
> stained
> >> to look as black as Indian ebony, and it is equally as fine and
> hard.
> >> Same Family, same Genus, different species. It even sinks in water
> >> like "ebony" because it is ebony. It makes no difference to the
> >> sound,
> >> performance or integrity of the violin and the beauty is just as
> >> lustrous.
> >>
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic/
> >> browse_thread/thread/dee77fd44d6142a/562990314731bb57?
> >> lnk=st&q=stained
> >> +woods+to+replace+ebony&rnum=2&hl=fr#562990314731bb57
> >>
> >> The hard one to replace will be ebony. The 'local' variety,
> >> persimmon,
> >> is most usually white, although you can find logs with some dark
> grey
> >> streaking. Look at Henry's myrtle/spruce classical in the 'Student
> >> Gallery' on my web site to see a nice piece of persimmon used as a
> >> fingerboard. The white stuff is nice and hard, we just have to
> >> figure
> >> out how to stain it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0306-1078(197504)3%3A2%3C134%
> >> 3AWUFWIS
> >> %3E2.0.CO%3B2-1
> >> Rosewood, ebony and African 136 blackwood have been used but the
> >> instruments made from these woods were uncomfortably heavy and the
> >> tone derived from these ...
> >>
> >> http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0072-0127(198003)33%3C106%
> 3AAOBJBR%
> >> 3E2.0.CO%3B2-Q
> >>
> >> http://www.alembic.com/info/wood_fingerboards.html
> >> --
> >>
> >> To get on or off this list see list information at
> >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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