I'm a classical guitarist of some 30 years experience (amateur, but play at
an advanced level) who recently switched more or less completely to
Renaissance lute which I play thumb-under in the conventional manner. It
took a little while but I am fortunate to have an excellent teacher
(Catherine Liddell) as well as the fact that I play mandolin, i.e. a
plectrum, and so the right forearm motion necessary to thumb-under was not a
problem.
Mr. Mayes' observation about the rh pinky raises an interesting hypothesis
but I believe that the extant evidence from the period is that the best
players did play with the pinky on the belly. I know of no modern controlled
experiment comparing the two possibilities (free rh hand versus
conventional) and find it difficult to imagine such an experiment (Bream,
who played the lute using what appears to me to be the same rh position as
he used to play guitar, is obviously not a controlled experiment). I
personally do not find the conventional thumb under to be a problem in using
the ring finger when playing, say, early 16th century Italian music or, for
that matter, Dowland.
Mr. Mayes' remark reminds me of a recent review in Soundboard magazine of a
performance by Bob Barto at the Guitar Foundation of Amerca convention. The
reviewer was astounded by the fluency of Barto's performance, especially
since, according to the reviewer, he used what the reviewer thought was
an outmoded right hand position -- i.e. conventional Baroque lute right hand
technique.
Robert Margo
On 5/1/07, Joseph Mayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> OK
> I guess it's time I had my little say.
>
> I am a Classicql guitarist who plays a bit of lute.
>
> The false impressions I need to correct in Chris' e-mail are:1.
> Classical guitar technique is "counter-intuitive." Actually, if you don't
> make any adjustments to the hand at all when approaching the guitar, you
> will have a pretty good position.
>
> 2. "...bend your wrist too much like playing the classical guitar" I have
> heard, and continue to hear this stated - it ain't so! Classical
> guitarists
> do not - repeat do not - bend their wrists. Playing perpendicular to the
> strings is a sure way to produce a thin, naily tone. It also hurts. We do
> not do it! Haven't for years and years.
>
> In the last PO masterclass I attended, there was much discussion about
> how to cope with the little finger on the belly when changing right hand
> positions - that is: going from bass notes to treble. There is no reason
> that anyone has explained to me, for having the little finger anywhere
> near
> the belly (Blasphemy - here come the flames) I think it's a holdover from
> books advising complete beginners. There are pretty good reasons against
> it
> - like the fact that it cripples the ring finger. If you don't know where
> the belly is after playing a month or two...
>
> The evolution of right hand technique seems to have gone: plectrum -
> thumb under - thumb out.
>
> Joseph Mayes
>
>
> On 5/1/07 9:54 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > --- John Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> I feel like I'm having to unlearn all my 'good'
> >> guitar habits!
> >
> > Yes, its a different approach. Ironically, though,
> > throughout the guitar's history, much right hand
> > technique shared a lot in common with the lute
> > technique you're learning now. It was largely due to
> > Segovia's efforts in the early 20th century that we
> > arrived at the modern, largely counter-intuitive, way
> > of playing classical guitar. (Then again, the modern,
> > nylon-strung instrument is quite different than
> > guitars of ages past.) In other words, if you
> > seriously pursue thumb-under, you will find that
> > you'll re-think the way you play Sor or Giuliani -
> > probably for the better.
> >
> >> I'm just wondering - do any of the sources give a
> >> reason for this kind
> >> of thumb technique, or is it just some odd quirk in
> >> the evolution of
> >> playing?
> >>
> > Thumb-under playing was derived from playing with a
> > plectrum. Instead of up-and-down strokes, you now
> > have index ("up") and thumb ("down"). You also have
> > the other fingers for playing chords on non-adjacent
> > strings and seperate voice-lines. When I was first
> > dealing with thumb-under, I would occasionally take
> > time out and actually try playing my pieces with a
> > pick. This seemed to help when I would go back to
> > thumb-under fingerstyle.
> >
> > Another thing that really helped my was to imagine
> > reaching out and shaking hands with someone. Your
> > forearm will actually be coming in nearly
> > perpendicular to the bridge. (I seem to remember
> > Poulton recommending placing the pinky on the bridge,
> > which would make this impossible. This works for
> > later music, but for the "classic" thumb-under
> > position, it would be better to place your picky a
> > little behind the rose, almost parallel to the
> > strings.) Again, this is exactly how you would use a
> > pick. Most of your playing motion actually comes from
> > the forearm, but, like anything, you don't want to
> > overdo it. A big pitfall is to bend your wrist too
> > much, like playing classical fingerstyle. In that
> > school, the idea is to position the fingers
> > perpendicular to the strings to assist in playing
> > arpeggios. Note that you rarely have arpeggios in
> > renaissance music! This is music mostly of lines and
> > thumb-under is perfect for it.
> >
> > It is very awkward at first, but very much worth it of
> > the beautiful tone and speed. Yes, speed! Once you
> > get the hang of it, you'll be able to play scales much
> > smoother and faster than the m-i alternation of
> > classical guitar. How cool is _that_?
> >
> > I would definately recommend a couple of lessons with
> > a teacher, even if you have to travel far. It would
> > be worth the effort to avoid years of frustration.
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > P.S. By the way, I'm playing mostly baroque music
> > nowadays and almost never use thumb-under anymore.
> > Learning it helped my with many aspects of my playing
> > in all styles, however.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>
--
