Dear Michael, G=F6ran & all:
 
While G=F6ran gives an eloquent summary of our received notion of the 
development multiple courses on lutes throughout the 16th century, there is 
evidence that the matter was not quite so clearly defined.  No surprise.
 
H. Colin Slim, in his excellent article, 'Musicians on Parnassus,' (Studies in 
the Renaissance, Vol. 12 (1965), pp. 134-163) describes the poem Monte Parnasso 
by Philippo Oriolo da Bassano.  Bassano appears to outdo Rabelais' Pantagruel 
in the art of name-dropping within the poem, which Slim dates to circa 
1519-1522. 
 
Cantos XIX, XX and XXI name several theorists, composers and instrumentalists, 
including Spinacino and Francesco da Milano,  
Canto XX describes a contest between two lutenists playing lutes with 13 and 17 
strings.  Presumably, the poet was counting individual strings of the courses.  
Slim notes that Sebastian Virdung also mentions lutes with fourteen strings as 
early as 1511.
 
We seem to have a collective need to create neat categories and a progression 
of events for historical music but the real story is always less systematic and 
more complex.
 
Best wishes,
 
Ron Andrico
 
http://www.mignarda.com
 
> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:48:43 +0100> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: 
> lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Is 8c 
> really the standard?> > Hi Michael,> > when I got my first lute in the early 
> 80's, after playing lute music on> guitar since the early 60's, my teacher 
> recommended an 8-course, arguing in> favour of a versatile instrument which 
> could be used for a time span of> roughly the whole 16th century. As you 
> know, course development was roughly:> 6c - ca. 1500-ca. 1575; 7c - ca. 1565 
> - 1590; 8c - ca. 1585 - 1600; 9c - ca.> 1600 - 1615; 10c ca. 1615 - 1630; 11c 
> - thereafter aso. (with slight> overlappings).> > For me, the switch from 6 
> string guitar to 8 course lute was a _steep_> learning curve, with the thumb 
> under and all. Not so much for the left as> for the right hand. After several 
> years of unsatisfying trial, I decided,> that my synapses were not coping and 
> that I wasn't enjoying it very much, in> spite of the "silvery sound", so I s!
 old the instrument although it was a> very fine one.> > I've often held the 
view on this list, that for a lute novice, or the> transition from guitar 
should preferably be to a 6c (or a 7c with the 7th> removed) and playing the 
1500 to ca. 1570 repertory. After a year or two,> when the hands have been 
properly trained, and are familiar with the> instrument, one could progress to 
7c for a year and then 8c for a year and> so on. In this way the student will 
have a natural progression, and at the> same time get familiar with the 
repertory and all its characteristics for> the different epochs and regional 
differences. The 6c will be much easier to> play on, and therefore give a 
higher feeling of mastering it all and> consequently be more rewarding. The 
ground work will then be set, and I > believe that further development will be 
quicker and more effective.> > Others will perhaps argue, that you can remove 
the 7th and 8th course in the> beginning and add them when progressing wh!
 ich is certainly an option, but I> think that there are many o!
 ther iss
ues when approaching the music, which> speak for playing on the right 
instrument. (Right number of courses, right> width and breadth of neck aso. 
although again, some will argue that there > never was any "right" measures, 
and that lutists/lutenists in those days > differed as much then as they do 
now.)> > But IMV all this talk about HIP somewhat looses its meaning, if not 
played> on an instrument for which the music was intended. I also think that 
much of> the virtuoso polyphonic music beginning around ca. 1560 should be 
played on> a smaller, perhaps even descant lute, as the stretches are 
sometimes> forbidding on an instrument with a long mensur, however better the 
sound.> > So to answer your question plainly: Yes, the eight course is best 
suited for> a short span of english and italian music in the last decade of the 
16th> century. The reasons for it becoming the instrument par exellence for> 
beginners today might have something to do with the lute-revival in the> early 
t!
 o mid 20th c. starting mainly in England, (but I'm on thin ice> there), and 
the traditional belief thereby to be getting a versatile > instrument where the 
advantages excel the drawbacks.> > If the student plans to go into lute playing 
seriously, and not just as a> "nice pastime", get a 6 - or 7c first, and that 
will work much better and be> both more enjoyable and lead to more effective 
learning in the long run.> > If you prefer Baroque, (and this indeed seems to 
be the preference nowadays,> at least with the posters on this list) I don't 
know if it would perhaps be> better to get an 11 - course from the start and 
just learn to cope with all> the extra courses, or spend a couple of years on a 
6 course first, to get> the bearings. As I've never played an 11 - 13 course 
lute, others will have> to give feedback on that.> > IMV there is much to be 
gained from following the epochs consequently,> starting with early Renaissance 
and progressing from there. The pieces are> often m!
 ore suited for a beginner but still musically rewarding. This !
 way one>
 will be able to understand the development as it occurred and probably> become 
a more "compleat musitian".> > B.R.> > G.> > ----- Original Message ----- > 
From: "Michael Bocchicchio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>> 
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 7:24 AM> Subject: [LUTE] Is 8c really the 
standard?> > > >> > People who have purchased lutes from me in the past have 
all come to me> > with the common wisdom that the 8c. is the standard. Why 
would this be?> > Is it true now? Was it true in the past or something like 
that?> > Furthermore, for who? A first time buyer? A graduate school student> > 
studying guitar , who will only need one lute to complete the Masters> > 
program requirements? A Renaissance Fair performer? I wonder if this> > notion 
is a holdover from a time when historical or true> > lutes were hard to come by 
and players had to chose instruments for their> > versatility rather than for 
their appropriateness for a given period of> > music.> >!
  In fact, it seems to me that the greater body of Renaissance lute music is> > 
for 6 and 7c instruments. Eight course music seems limited to the very> > end 
of the 16th century, and mostly English. French music seems to jump> > from 7c 
to 10c beginning with Francisque c.1600. I'm not quite sure about> > how the 
dates went for Italy, Netherlands, and Germany, but it would> > seem that 8c 
music is a small body of music by comparison, no? If I have> > made too gross a 
generalization or am just plain wrong, please correct me.> > Even as an amateur 
player, I know that the instrument needs to fit the> > music---why would you 
want the sympathetic ring of an 8c when playing> > Milan? As a luthier, I fined 
that the popular 58-62cm instruments do> > best as 6 and 7 courses as a large 
bridge can choke a small sound board.> > I would think a 7c at 62-63cm is a 
good way to go, but appear to be "going> > against the grain".> > If an 8c is 
"the standard", can someone explain this to me?> !
 >> > --> >> > To get on or off this list see list information !
 at> > ht
tp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html> >> > 
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