Roland, There are also John Wilson's pieces and other English works that just use the single re-entrant tuning. Unfortunately for Melli and Pittoni, this may solve extremely disjunct voice leading problems in some places but it will create more problems in others.
In Pittoni and Melli, the second course is musically somehow both ABOVE the third course and BELOW the first. Its also above the fourth course. Descending melodic lines may begin on the 3rd course, continue down to the 1st course and then proceed to the 2nd course. In other contexts (often within the same piece) lines can begin on the 2nd course and continue "downwards" to the 3rd course. In still other cases, we find that runs begin on the 2nd course and continue to the 5th course. Obviously, things go the opposite way when dealing with ascending lines... In this repertoire, the situation is in fact 100% clear: the 2nd course always eschews obfuscation except when it does the opposite, which is true in all cases. :-) Chris --- Roland Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What about a lowered 1st on what we would otherwise > consider a large > archlute? I seem to remember an archlute piece (Doni > ms.) that does not > use a chanterelle. To me this implies that the first > course was > problematic at times at least (a la french 11 c. > pieces w/o chanterelle) > and may have been replaced with a string an octave > lower for both > continuo and solo pieces. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 2:36 PM > To: Jerzy Zak; Lute Net > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Pittoni's theorbo? > > Jurek, > > > There are many problematic areas in regard to > this matter. I > believe that the most satisfactory solution is the > second course in > octaves since it seems sometimes to act as a > "normal" low string and > sometimes like it in the high octave. I've been > playing around with > this for the past month or so (on my "toy") and its > quite musically > worthwhile. (For the record, I've got my octave > string in the upper > position like a baroque guitar.) > > > We're forgetting about Melli. Without the octave > 2nd, there are whole > pieces that disintegrate into annoying leaps. Take > these examples from > the 'Corrente detta la Strasinata per la Tiorba' > from his Libro Quinto > of 1620. > > The piece opens with a 16th-note run from the 1st > course to the second. > Fine for standard double re-entrant tuning. In bar > 6, however, there is > a trill (marked "T") above the dotted quarter on the > open second course. > The real problem comes with the fact that the trill > also has a > written-out termination. There are two 16ths: a '3' > on the third course > followed by a '0' on the second course which leads > into a '1' in the > next measure. How to make sense of this leap up a > minor seventh smack > in the middle of the concentrated gesture of rapid > neighboring tones > that make up a trill? The idea of the thing going > something like > "FEFEFEFEFE - D up a 7th - E down a 7th - F" in the > space of about a > second is ludicrous. And if Melli really wanted the > D as part of the > figure, why not just write an open 5th course? > These sorts of trills > happen all over. > > The figure at m.12 is problematic for standard > re-entrant tuning as > well. There is another four-note run in 16ths. In > this case the run > begins on an open second course and continues "down" > to '3-2-0' on the > third course. A leap up a minor seventh for no > reason. Why not just > write '5-3-2-0'? > > So far we might be able to argue that the piece, > although labeled "per > la Tiorba" has in fact been written for a lute or > "theorbo" with only > one or no re-entrant strings (then not a theorbo at > all, of course). > Measure 20 presents problems with this solution. > Here there is a > typical theorbo-ism - a 16th-note run divided > between strings. The > figure begins with a '3-1' on course 3, continues to > a '1' on the 1st > course, and moves on to a '2' on the 4th course > before finishing with a > '1' back on the 1st course. Such a figure would be > pointless in lute > tuning. Why not write those 1st course '1's' as > '3's' > on the 3rd course? > > Is single re-entrant tuning intended? There are > problems with that, > especially with what follows. The piece ends with a > nice set of > sequences using the 16th-note figure: > > m. 22 - '3-1-0' on course 1; '3' on course 2 > > m. 24 - '0' course 2; '3-2-0' course 3 > > m. 26 - '3-1-0' course 3; '2' course 4 > > m. 27 - '3-1-0' course 2; '3' course 3 > > m. 28 - '0' course 1; '3-2-0' course 2, incidentally > ending with '0' on > the 5th course. > > > This happens in the short space of a few measures > within ONE piece by > Melli. Many more such examples abound. > > Clearly he thought of the second course as musically > neighboring either > the first course, third course, OR 4th course. I've > found that having > the octave string closest to the third course allows > me to sometimes > emphasize the lower octave and sometimes the higher > one. (Having it > closest to the 1st course made it difficult to bring > out the low > octave). > > Its been fun working with it. And of course it > works nicely for > Pittoni, too! > > Chris > > --- Jerzy Zak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Martyn, > > > > Indeed, the Liste archives give ample exemples the > 'Pittoni case' is > > an unsolved problem. Of course you know, the > problem is not only on > > page 43, but on almost every page of this > interesting from several > > points of view publication. I've played in concert > one of the sonatas > > and have a score of it, and now I've examined the > whole volume again. > > > > There are several types of scalic passages. The > ones before cadences > > with lips of a seventh presents no problem at all, > they are idiomatic > > to any instrument of the time. But there are many > others which are > > broken around the second course. Some are > explicable by common > > practice of braking passages, say, like in > transcriptions from one > > medium to another - eg. JS Bach's own converting > traverso flute part > > to a flauto dolce part in one [or more] of his > cantata, or many > > adaptations of violin music to a traverso flute in > the XVIIIth C. But > > some others seems less hit home and it's either > Pittoni's laziness to > > get the 'proper' tone on the 3rd c. in high > position or he had the > > second in octave. In this case a matter of 'taste' > > in evaluation is > > inevitable... > > > > On the other hand Pittoni is a virtuoso and he > knows well the very > > 'tiorbistic' campanella devises and is using them > readily, often high, > > > using the 1st, the 3rd and the 4th c. (but I > spoted also campanella > > with 2nd). Sometime the campanellas are just > neighbouring with the > > 'spoiled' scalic passages ...In fact almost any > possible situation you > > > can finde on the 44 + 40 pages of quite dense > music. > > There is no point for citations, it would have to > be a long paper > > including a fair number of statistics - not for a > mailing liste. > > > > I do not have an easy answer but I feel the second > course === message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
