Thank you very much, Arthur, for your excellent explanations about concordances, sources and the complexity involved in researching them. Just one little point, about Musica Nova : it IS OOP but you can find several good second-hand copies on specilised sites like Abebooks. If Martin follows the link below he should find something interesting there. I bought a second-hand copy a little while ago and it is in perfect condition. Here's the link : http://www.abebooks.fr/servlet/SearchResults?an=Slim&kn=music&sortby=3&sts=t&tn=Musica+Nova&x=0&y=0
(Unfortunately, I could NOT find a decent copy of your da Milano edition so far... ;-( !!! ) Good luck, all the best, Jean-Marie ======= 08-03-2008 23:31:03 ======= >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Martin Shepherd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Arthur Ness" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Cc: "Lute Net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> >Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 3:37 AM >Subject: Re: [LUTE] New piece of the month > >| Dear Arthur, >| >| Thanks - I thought you might be interested! I had not realised >it was >| in Mertel as well, and now I look at it and it raises another >| interesting question, because the Mertel text is practically >identical >| to Hirsch - where did they both (20 years apart and in >different >| countries) get this version? > >Hello Martin, > ><<ajn>>In working with early sources of lute music one must >realize that >literally tons of the stuff have been lost. And surely some if >not much is lost without a trace. We know about Petrucci's book >III (Gian Maria Allemani) because Ferdinando Columbus owned a >copy (destroyed in the Lisbon Earthquake) and the surviving >library >catalogue describes the volume. Otherwise we would just know >that there >should be a book III someplace. But by whom? And when? And if >the vols. were not numbered, we'd not even suspect that such a >book ever existed. There are >contracts with printers that indicate in the 16th century the >usual press >run for a book of lute music was about 1250-1500 copies. And >when you look around for surviving copies, how many are there? >Usually about a half dozen. More usually only a single copy >survives. Or none as with Gian Maria and Segni. In other words a >book of lute music has one chance in >a thousand of reaching us today. And the chances are smaller >with manuscripts that originally existed in one copy. THat would >make the chance of a piece in a manuscript having one chance in a >million of surviving to our age! > >And there is a fantasia in the Siena manuscript copied about 1595 >that was first published in a corrupt version in Paris in 1529. >No other copy/version is known. That's even a longer >period. And it surely did not derive from a corrupt version. And >there are no other sources for the piece which >surely originated in Italy, perhaps from the pen of Francesco. > >|I suppose Mertel must have raided some >| English sources (the very next piece in Mertel is a Fantasia by >| Holborne, also in Hirsch but a tone lower) but it seems >| unlikely that he >| would have had access to Hirsch itself. > ><<ajn>>There were probably intermediary sources. The pieces in >Mertal >are unattributed, but are overwhelmingly by Continental composers >Perrichon, Laurencini, Galilei, M. Newsidler, Francesco, Cato. >The contents are reminiscent of Besard's _*Thesaurus*_ of 1603. >And large numbers of pieces still remain unidentified. >| >| I would value your opinion on another pair of pieces: Recercar >terzo >| from da Crema's 1546 book, and Siena f.4 (no.52 in your >Francesco edition). There are some curious discrepancies between >| the two versions, though they are clearly both based on the >same >| "original" (by Segni?). > ><<ajn>>Which original do you mean? Segni just has a ricercar with >the same openiojg theme. The version publ. in da Crema and >attributed to "Francesco de >milan" is in the HUP edition as Appendix 6. As such it does not >appear >in the surviving pieces by Segni, and so perhaps we should accept >da Crema's attribution. The da Crema version has additional >ornamentation, as do the other works. I think the original was >composed as >SATB or SAT part music, as da Crema indicates on the titlepage in >regard to >Segni, "intabulati & accomodati per sonar sopra il Lautto di M. >Jo. Maria da Crema . . ." > >| Talking of Segni, is Slim's edition of Musica Nova still >available? > >Apparently it's OOP. > >| I would like to acquire a copy, even if most of the Segni >pieces >adapted >| for the lute are not in it, if my reading of Brown is correct. >| > ><<ajn>>No. Slim and Brown were close friends and surely kept one >another >informed. Slim did a very good job in tracking down lute >versions of Segni's ricercars. I only found two pieces Colin >missed, and I'll tell you about them a few paragraphs below. >Once again we are dealing with the chance survival of 16th >century music. Of Segni's publication _*Musica Nova*_ (Venice >1540), only the bass part book survives. That's it. All gone. >However a >pirated(?) French edition appeared in Lyons with many of the same >pieces (as can be determined from the bass part). So that is >how Colin put together his edition of Musica Nova. But only a >few of the Segni works were arranged for lute. The many lute >arrangements that we do have probably came from a Segni >publication that is entirely lost. Some time around 1550 Segni >published an edition of some 50 "Recercari, intabulature da >organi et da tocco". And an edition like that is probably the >source >from which people like da Crema made their lute arrangements. I >wonder if that volume also included Francesco's works as well. >Because Segni and Francesco were colleagues at the papal court. > >Colin missed a Francesco ricercar (No. 86) which appears in Music >Nova (No. XI). Both sources date from about the same time, so to >whom do we grant priority? Did Segni arrange a Francesco lute >piece for organ? > >I discovered another fun Segni concordance in Domenico >Bianchini's tablature book (Venice 1546). Two ricercars are by >Segni. (Another one on "Faulte d'Argent" is in the style of >Cavazzoni.) One of the Segni ricercars is in Musica nova but >Colin missed it because the opening is embellished in Bianchini's >lute arrangement. I was curious about that p[iece because so >much of the music in Bianchini's book is rather primative. The >work of an untrained amateur. So what were the finely wrought >ricercars doing there? Segni was first organist at St. Mark's in >Venice before going to Rome and joining Francesco. And >Bianchini? He was a master mosaicist and member of a family of >mocaicists who worked in St. Mark's! When Bianchini was working >high up on the scaffold, Segni might very well be down below >practicing the organ. I wonder if Bianchini sometimes played his >lute arrangements down to Segni?<g> A kind of heavenly echo. >The beginnings of cori spezzati? > >| Best wishes, >| >| Martin >| >| Arthur Ness wrote: >| >| >Dear Martin, >| > >| >That is an interesting pair of works that you published. The >| >Hirsch version is the same as a fantasia (or fuga--the titles >are >| >not specific for each piece) in Elias Mertal, _Hortus >Musicalis >| >Novus_ (Strasbourg 1615), No. 79 (pp. 222-3). Probably the >| >proper >| >title is Fuga. I have a transcription (App. 4) like yours in >| >parallel systems, and can send it if you are interested. I do >| >think quite >| >a few of Francesco's works were conceived as ensemble part >music, >| >including several pieces called "fuga." Not necessarily was it >| >by Julio da Modena. >| > >| >Judging from the ornamentation, the Hirsch/Mertel version was >| >second, and an attempt to make the piece canzona-like. >| > >| >Or I'll post the transcriptions to my site. Let me know. >| > >| >Best regards, Arthur. >| >=====AJN (Boston, Mass.)===== >| >* Free Download of the Week from Classical Music Library: >| > >| >For this week's free download from Classical Music Library go >to >| >my web page >| >and click on Alexander Street Press link: >| > >| >http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ >| > >| >*Vaughan Williams'_ Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis___* >| >performed by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra; Christopher >| >Seaman, conductor. More >| >information about this piece is available on our music blog >| ><http://alexanderstreet.typepad.com/music>. >| > >| >For some free scores, go to: >| >http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/ >| >=================================== >| > >| >----- Original Message ----- >| >From: "Martin Shepherd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >| >To: "Lute Net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> >| >Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:06 AM >| >Subject: [LUTE] New piece of the month >| > >| > >| >| Dear All, >| >| >| >| The new Piece of the Month for March is now available on >| >| >| >| www.luteshop.co.uk/month/pieceofthemonth.htm >| >| >| >| Downloads are available as Fromino, Tab, PDF and MP3. >| >| >| >| I hope your copy of Acrobat reader behaves better than >mine - >| >it seems >| >| to be picking up the wrong file even though I've >double/triple >| >checked >| >| that the links are correct. Please let me know if there are >| >any other >| >| problems. >| >| >| >| My web host has told me that, due to an upgrade, there may >be >| >some >| >| disruption to service between 11pm this evening and 5am >| >tommorrow - I >| >| don't imagine this will be a problem for anyone in Europe >but >| >some of >| >| you may be farther-flung. >| >| >| >| Best wishes, >| >| >| >| Martin >| >| >| >| >| >| >| >| To get on or off this list see list information at >| >| http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >| >| >| > >| > >| > >| > >| > >| >| > > > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://poirierjm.free.fr 09-03-2008
