Regarding conductor's (as opposed to player's) whims: almost all the
conductors/directors (both professional and amateur) I know or know of
are generally only too willing to defer to their continuo players on
the appropriate style/instrument. Of course, if one waves an exotic
instrument (eg 'baroque guitar') for a particular repertoire under
their noses they may see a marketing opportunity......
Regarding the point that we can never really know what was actually
played; clearly this is so, but we can gain a pretty good idea of what
wasn't general practice in a particular setting and this, I think, was
the point of the initial comment. This also has some overlap with the
recent comments on Lisveland's self-indulgent performances.
MH
On Fri, 18/12/09, Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: another day at the office
To: "David van Ooijen" <davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Lutelist" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Friday, 18 December, 2009, 19:46
If it's not your whim and you are under duress from ill informed
conductors
then I owe you an apology!
But briefly I don't think that the guitar would have been used in 17th
century Italian (or other) religious music intended to be performed in
a
liturgical context. I can't see why it should be necessary.
As far as the Vespers are concerned I wouldn't compare the opening with
an
overture to an opera. This is an invocation to God to hear our
prayers
and accept our praises. It is not intended to be a dramatic
performance
but a spiritually uplifting or inspiring experience. I am not a
theorbo
player but I can't really see the point in strumming that in the
context
although it seems very fashionable at the moment.
Part of the problem seems to me to be that today the music is just
regarding
as another form of entertainment without taking into account the
purpose for
which it was intended.
Beyond that there are obviously a whole range of problems about how the
Vespers should be performed - starting with the idea that it isn't
entirely
clear what purpose Monteverdi did actually have in mind when composing
it.
Anyway at least I have sparked off a lively debate (again). It always
surprises me that everyone takes what I say so seriously!
God probably isn't worried one way or another. My brother has this
nice
idea that he just sits on a cloud switching channels until he finds
something he wants to listen to.
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: "David van Ooijen" <[1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
To: "Lutelist" <[2]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 12:20 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: another day at the office
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Monica Hall
<[3]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> to which I would respond - is there any authority for David's
proposition
>> other than his own whim?
>
>
> O dear, now it's suddenly my whim against the lack of evidence ( ...
> is no evidence of lack &c.). I'll pass your opinion on to the next
> conductor (tonight and tomorrow, as it happens, and this particular
> man might be happy, as he thought us pluckers to be _much_ too loud
> for his choir anyway).
>
> Seriously though, within Italian early 17th century repertoire you
are
> saying no baroque guitar in church, not in music intended for a
> service or just not in Monteverdi's Vespers? I have no axe to grind
> here, so I am reading your comments with interest.
>
> Back to the Vespers. The festive music Monteverdi chose for his
> opening, worthy of an ouverture to an opera, is to me inviting to
> festive strumming. If there's just a theorbo, I'd do the strumming on
> the theorbo (Lex just made a point about that), though I do like the
> theorbo more for it's real forte: low and full sound. Playing the
> Nigra Sum on b-guitar would obviously be another matter, but, if
> there's no big lute, gentle plucking added to an organ would not
> offend me. A festive production like the Vespers is an opportunity to
> make the best of the orchestra available. I think it was Howard who
> made a valid points about the use of recorders. And there are the
> recurring questions about the number of cornetti needed, and what to
> do with the middle voices and basses in the orchestra. Yes or no
bowed
> bass in the Nigra Sum &c. Just organ or add a cembalo? Make do with
> the available ensemble is what it's all about. And, yes, there is
> currently a fashion in early music to have lots of strumming and
> percussion, and more and more pluckers, and noise, and confusion, and
> poppy performances, and fun, and showing off, and being frivolous,
and
> all that. It'll pass to be replaced by the next fad.
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *******************************
> David van Ooijen
> [4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
> www.davidvanooijen.nl
> *******************************
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=davidvanooi...@gmail.com
2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=davidvanooi...@gmail.com
5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
