Hey Roman,
And I got to meet your smiling face, too. Hoppy taught the students very well and they learned alot from him. As Hoppy said, a big part of the lute repertoire. is made up of transcriptions and, in those idealized days of yore, I am sure a singer of Josquin des Prez felt the same about hearing the lute torture such perfect vocal music. Mark Delpriora -----Original Message----- From: Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@verizon.net> To: chriswi...@yahoo.com; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 10:10 am Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte It does sound much more interesting than a guitar though, even if it sound a bit too much like one (but thankfully not quite). I have recently observed Hoppy Smith's masterclass for guitarists torturing lute repertoire, and I was really grateful for bypassing the guitar myself. RT ----- Original Message ----- From: <chriswi...@yahoo.com> To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 9:41 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte It's a guitar, as confirmed by Peter Autschbach's jazz recording. If you tried to do what he did on a real lute, the results would be entirely different. (I liked it, though.) On the other hand, I was disappointed that Contini's "arciliuto forte" recording didn't seem to be particularly louder than a historical-model archlute... again displaying the fact that the fuller tonal spectrum and ostensibly greater dynamic range of the modern guitar (and liuto forte) doesn't help one iota in ensemble situations. I'm not ready to make up my mind from recorded examples. I would still like to hear/play one in person. Chris --- On Tue, 12/22/09, luther maynard <luthermayn...@live.com> wrote: > From: luther maynard <luthermayn...@live.com> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > To: mathias.roe...@t-online.de, l...@pantagruel.de > Cc: sauvag...@orange.fr, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 5:34 PM > To each his own, > but it sounds more like a Guitar than a Lute to my > ears. > > LM > > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:54:00 > +0000 > > To: l...@pantagruel.de > > CC: sauvag...@orange.fr; > lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > From: mathias.roe...@t-online.de > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > http://www.liuto-forte.com/ click on folder > <Literatur/Audio>, then > on > > <Demoaufnahmen> on the left > (Oliver Holzenburg, Anett Bartuschka, > > Christian Hostettler, Luciano > Contini, Peter Autschbach). > > > > Mathias > > > > "Edward Martin" <e...@gamutstrings.com> > schrieb: > > > I am curious... are there any > professional recordings on liuto > forte? > > > > > > ed > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 12/21/2009, lute > wrote: > > > >The text was used for a > performance at a lute festival in Belgium. > > > >As you admit it does sound > silly, there is no evidence that Bach > wrote 6 > > > >suites for the lute, even > that he was so very interested in the > lute. > > > >I am sure a lot of > lutenists would love to think he was, but it > does not > > > >seem to have interested him > a great deal. > > > > > > > >But maybe he could see into > the future and wanted to write for an > instrument > > > >that was invented a few > hundred years later....or maybe the liuto > forte is > > > >not a new instrument, but > an idea stolen from the 18th century. > > > > > > > >There are also a number of > modern performances on dminor baroque > lute so > > > >they do not seem to be > "unplayable". > > > > > > > >All the best > > > >Mark > > > > > > > > > > > >p.S. Here is EB's programme > presenting the reconstructed 6 > suites.... > > > > > > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: > suite BWV 995 > > > >prelude, allemande, > courante, sarabande, gavottes 1 et 2, gigue. > > > >Joaquin RODRIGO: Sarabande > lointaine. > > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: > suite BWV 999 > > > >(reconstitution E. > Bellocq) > > > >prelude, fugue, sarabande, > menuets 1, 2 et 3. > > > >Yuquijiro YOCOH: Sakura, > theme et variations sur la chanson > traditionnelle > > > >japonaise. > > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: > suite BWV 998 > > > >prelude, fugue et allegro. > > > > > > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: > suite BWV 996 > > > >prelude, allemande, > courante, sarabande, bourree, gigue. > > > >Wolfgang Amadeus MOZART: > larghetto du Divertimento KV 439b n-o2. > > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: > suite BWV 997 > > > >prelude, fugue, sarabande, > gigue et double. > > > >DEBUSSY: La fille aux > cheveux de lin. > > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: > suite BWV 1006a > > > >prelude, loure, gavotte en > rondeau, menuets 1 et 2, bourree, > gigue. > > > > > > > >-----Urspruengliche > Nachricht----- > > > >Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] > Im Auftrag > > > >von Franz Mechsner > > > >Gesendet: Montag, 21. > Dezember 2009 17:09 > > > >An: Mark Wheeler; Sauvage > Valery; lute > > > >Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto > forte > > > > > > > > Dear Mark, > > > > > > > > where did you get Eric > Bellocq's promotion text from? It sounds > indeed > > > > a little silly - but given > how much work he semed to have > invested in > > > > research on Bach suites, > and finally playing them in ABs (?) > tuning, > > > > one should do him justice > before ridiculing him and make sure > what's > > > > the matter with this > text... not everything is what it seems to > be.. > > > > > > > > F > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > im Auftrag von Mark Wheeler > > > > Gesendet: So 20.12.2009 > 16:27 > > > > An: 'Sauvage Valery'; > lute > > > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto > forte > > > > > > > > Well if you find playing > "a guitar in form of a lute saying it is > a > > > > lute" > > > > strange then have a look > at this promotion text from the same > > > > lutenist.. > > > > "It is assumed that Bach, > just as for the violin and the cello, > > > > composed six > > > > solo suites for lute. But > only a few of these incredibly > difficult lute > > > > compositions have been > preserved. Eric Bellocq accepted the > challenge > > > > and > > > > reconstructed a complete > suite cycle. For this purpose, he had a > `luito > > > > forte' built, which all of > a sudden makes these compositions > quite > > > > playable!" > > > > Who assumes that there are > 6 solo suites for lute, where is the > > > > evidence? > > > > All of the surviving Bach > compositions or arrangements have been > > > > recorded > > > > many times, so they are > playable on a standard baroque lute. > > > > Eric's text is of course > absolute hogwash, but it is the sort of > thing > > > > that > > > > some classical promoters > probably lap up, not surprising > considering > > > > that > > > > huge portions of the > mega-narrative of classical music dreamed up > in > > > > the > > > > 19th century is equally > ridiculous. But wasn't one of the aims of > the > > > > early > > > > music movement to try to > get beyond these assumptions and myths. > > > > Mark > > > > -----Urspruengliche > Nachricht----- > > > > Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > [[1]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] > Im > > > > Auftrag > > > > von Sauvage Valery > > > > Gesendet: Sonntag, 20. > Dezember 2009 15:58 > > > > An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto > forte > > > > I'm not against guitar and > guitar players (as a guitar player > myself, > > > > on > > > > romantic intrument ;-) but > I don't understand why play a guitar > in form > > > > of a > > > > lute saying it is a lute, > as I find my normal lute "forte" enough > in > > > > itself, > > > > that's all. And after, > eveyone makes whatever he wants... > > > > V. > > > > ----- Original Message > ----- > > > > From: <terli...@aol.com> > > > > To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 20, > 2009 3:30 PM > > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto > forte > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > From: terli...@aol.com > > > > > To: chriswi...@yahoo.com > > > > > Sent: Sun, Dec 20, > 2009 9:22 am > > > > > Subject: Re: [LUTE] > Re: Liuto forte > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I write at the risk > of being gummed to death by a horde of > irate > > > > > lutenists: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what > kind of guitars and guitar playing lutenists > here > > > > have > > > > > been exposed to here > but there is a wide variety of types of > guitars > > > > and > > > > > playing styles. > Hauser style guitar guitars are very good for > playing > > > > some > > > > > lute music. Smallman > type guitars are less good for playing > most lute > > > > > music. To play lute > music decently on guitar takes a certain > > > > touch...there > > > > > are players that can > do it. > > > > > The guitar > (unamplified) works great great in ensemble playing > e.g > > > > Boulez: > > > > > Le marteau sans > maA(R)tre: Webern op.18, > > > > > Takemitsu: Ring for > Lute,flute and guitar... > > > > > Best, > > > > > Mark Delpriora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > > > > From: chriswi...@yahoo.com > > > > > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; > Sauvage ValA(c)ry > <sauvag...@orange.fr> > > > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 19, > 2009 6:18 pm > > > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: > Liuto forte > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Valery, > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 12/19/09, > Sauvage ValA(c)ry <sauvag...@orange.fr> > wrote: > > > > >> Ok forte, > > > > >> we can hear it, > but sounds like a guitar (single strung for > > > > >> the one he > used). > > > > >> So why not play > the guitar ? modern and loud instrument you > > > > >> can play with > nails... > > > > > > > > > > Really? I've found > the modern classical guitar to be a really, > > > > really > > > > > awful > > > > > ensemble instrument > when dealing with anything else other than > other > > > > > classical > > > > > guitars or one other > instrument/voice. While the signal coming > from > > > > it > > > > > may be > > > > > technically louder > than most types of lutes, it is designed to > > > > emphasize > > > > > the > > > > > lower partials so > that the sound is literally swallowed up by > other > > > > modern > > > > > instruments. This > sort of dark timbre can be very effective for > a > > > > certain > > > > > portion (but not all) > of the solo repertoire, but it really > loses its > > > > > charm in > > > > > other situations. > This is why A) it MUST be played with nails > B) > > > > even > > > > > then it > > > > > doesn't project > particularly well and C) you often hear the > > > > instrument > > > > > amplified > > > > > in even small > ensembles. > > > > > > > > > > If you're going to > amplify it, what's the point of using that > type of > > > > > guitar > > > > > (unless you want to > make the amplification part of the effect > and > > > > timbre > > > > > itself, > > > > > a la George Crumb)? > This is why I haven't used a classical > guitar in > > > > any > > > > > of my > > > > > ensemble music for > years. A steel-string guitar works very well > > > > > unamplified in > > > > > a small ensemble and > the electric guitar has no volume > limitations at > > > > all. > > > > > Contemporary > composers would find much of interest in these > > > > instruments > > > > > and > > > > > modern classical > guitarists would be well advised to think of > them as > > > > > alternate > > > > > versions of their > instrument. Unfortunately, classical players > often > > > > > perceive > > > > > them as some kind of > threat from outside the "official" guitar > world. > > > > > > > > > > I haven't found this > same problem with lutes or theorbos. The > > > > emphasis of > > > > > higher partials means > that the sound on both can cut through > quite > > > > well. > > > > > Play > > > > > close to the bridge > and you can be heard most of the time. I've > been > > > > > thinking > > > > > of writing a duo for > lute and modern guitar. Maybe now's the > time to > > > > > investigate the > project. > > > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ----- Original > Message ----- From: "wolfgang wiehe" > > > > <wie-w...@gmx.de> > > > > >> To: <terli...@aol.com>; > > > > >> <r.turov...@verizon.net>; > > > > >> <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > > > >> Sent: Saturday, > December 19, 2009 8:05 PM > > > > >> Subject: [LUTE] > Re: Liuto forte > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> I heard a "liuto > forte" this year at our DLG meeting on > > > > >> "Burg > > > > >> Sternberg". Hmm, > not louder than my g-lute...;-) > > > > >> Greetings > > > > >> W. > > > > >> > > > > >> -----UrsprA > 1/4ngliche Nachricht----- > > > > >> Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > > > > >> [[2]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] > > > > >> Im > > > > >> Auftrag von terli...@aol.com > > > > >> Gesendet: > Samstag, 19. Dezember 2009 19:41 > > > > >> An: r.turov...@verizon.net; > > > > >> lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > > > >> Betreff: [LUTE] > Re: Liuto forte > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> OR suitable for a > guitarist who is NOT sick of the guitar > > > > >> repertoire! > > > > >> . and is happy > with finger nails. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Roman, Did you go > to the the demonstration of the liuto > > > > >> forte hat > > > > >> occurred at the > Met Museum a year or 3 ago? > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> I missed it. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Mark Delpriora > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> -----Original > Message----- > > > > >> From: Roman > Turovsky <r.turov...@verizon.net> > > > > >> To: Lutelist > <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > > > >> Sent: Sat, Dec > 19, 2009 11:51 am > > > > >> Subject: [LUTE] > Re: Liuto forte > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> It is a > single-strung lute and guitar hybrid designed by > > > > >> Andre Burguete, > > > > >> that aproximates > lute sound while purporting to have the > > > > >> volume of the > > > > >> guitar. It uses > nylon overspun with fine steel wire, and > > > > >> has some > > > > >> interesting and > useful peculiarities in the bridge and > > > > >> soundboard > > > > >> construction. > > > > >> Fixed metal frets > are supposedly less dampening to the > > > > >> sound > > > > >> (negligibly). > > > > >> This technology > might yield a nice and loud theorbo in ET. > > > > >> But one really > misses the overtone palette of double > > > > >> strings. > > > > >> It is a very > suitable instrument for a guitarist who is > > > > >> sick of the > > > > >> guitar > repertoire, but is unwilling to part with his > > > > >> nails. > > > > >> > > > > >> [3]http://www.liuto-forte.com/ > > > > >> There are a > number of notable converts to it: Oliver > > > > >> Holzenburg, > Luciano > > > > >> Contini et al. > > > > >> RT > > > > >> > > > > >> ----- Original > Message ----- From: "Daniel Winheld" > > > > >> <dwinh...@comcast.net> > > > > >> To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > > > >> Sent: Saturday, > December 19, 2009 11:31 AM > > > > >> Subject: [LUTE] > Re: Liuto forte > > > > >> > > > > >> > Alright, > I'll bite- What in God's name is Liuto > > > > >> Forte? (I must > have > > > > >> > been out of > the office for this one) > > > > >> > thanks, Dan > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list > information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > __________________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with > security by Microsoft. [1]Get it now. > -- > > References > > 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/ > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
