I agree. ed
At 04:34 PM 12/22/2009, luther maynard wrote: > To each his own, but it sounds more like a Guitar than a Lute to my > ears. > > LM > > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:54:00 +0000 > > To: l...@pantagruel.de > > CC: sauvag...@orange.fr; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > From: mathias.roe...@t-online.de > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > http://www.liuto-forte.com/ click on folder <Literatur/Audio>, then > on > > <Demoaufnahmen> on the left (Oliver Holzenburg, Anett Bartuschka, > > Christian Hostettler, Luciano Contini, Peter Autschbach). > > > > Mathias > > > > "Edward Martin" <e...@gamutstrings.com> schrieb: > > > I am curious... are there any professional recordings on liuto > forte? > > > > > > ed > > > > > > At 03:06 PM 12/21/2009, lute wrote: > > > >The text was used for a performance at a lute festival in Belgium. > > > >As you admit it does sound silly, there is no evidence that Bach > wrote 6 > > > >suites for the lute, even that he was so very interested in the > lute. > > > >I am sure a lot of lutenists would love to think he was, but it > does not > > > >seem to have interested him a great deal. > > > > > > > >But maybe he could see into the future and wanted to write for an > instrument > > > >that was invented a few hundred years later....or maybe the liuto > forte is > > > >not a new instrument, but an idea stolen from the 18th century. > > > > > > > >There are also a number of modern performances on dminor baroque > lute so > > > >they do not seem to be "unplayable". > > > > > > > >All the best > > > >Mark > > > > > > > > > > > >p.S. Here is EB's programme presenting the reconstructed 6 > suites.... > > > > > > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: suite BWV 995 > > > >prelude, allemande, courante, sarabande, gavottes 1 et 2, gigue. > > > >Joaquin RODRIGO: Sarabande lointaine. > > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: suite BWV 999 > > > >(reconstitution E. Bellocq) > > > >prelude, fugue, sarabande, menuets 1, 2 et 3. > > > >Yuquijiro YOCOH: Sakura, theme et variations sur la chanson > traditionnelle > > > >japonaise. > > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: suite BWV 998 > > > >prelude, fugue et allegro. > > > > > > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: suite BWV 996 > > > >prelude, allemande, courante, sarabande, bourree, gigue. > > > >Wolfgang Amadeus MOZART: larghetto du Divertimento KV 439b n-o2. > > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: suite BWV 997 > > > >prelude, fugue, sarabande, gigue et double. > > > >DEBUSSY: La fille aux cheveux de lin. > > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: suite BWV 1006a > > > >prelude, loure, gavotte en rondeau, menuets 1 et 2, bourree, > gigue. > > > > > > > >-----Urspruengliche Nachricht----- > > > >Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] > Im Auftrag > > > >von Franz Mechsner > > > >Gesendet: Montag, 21. Dezember 2009 17:09 > > > >An: Mark Wheeler; Sauvage Valery; lute > > > >Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > > > > > Dear Mark, > > > > > > > > where did you get Eric Bellocq's promotion text from? It sounds > indeed > > > > a little silly - but given how much work he semed to have > invested in > > > > research on Bach suites, and finally playing them in ABs (?) > tuning, > > > > one should do him justice before ridiculing him and make sure > what's > > > > the matter with this text... not everything is what it seems to > be... > > > > > > > > F > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu im Auftrag von Mark Wheeler > > > > Gesendet: So 20.12.2009 16:27 > > > > An: 'Sauvage Valery'; lute > > > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > > > > > Well if you find playing "a guitar in form of a lute saying it is > a > > > > lute" > > > > strange then have a look at this promotion text from the same > > > > lutenist.. > > > > "It is assumed that Bach, just as for the violin and the cello, > > > > composed six > > > > solo suites for lute. But only a few of these incredibly > difficult lute > > > > compositions have been preserved. Eric Bellocq accepted the > challenge > > > > and > > > > reconstructed a complete suite cycle. For this purpose, he had a > `luito > > > > forte' built, which all of a sudden makes these compositions > quite > > > > playable!" > > > > Who assumes that there are 6 solo suites for lute, where is the > > > > evidence? > > > > All of the surviving Bach compositions or arrangements have been > > > > recorded > > > > many times, so they are playable on a standard baroque lute. > > > > Eric's text is of course absolute hogwash, but it is the sort of > thing > > > > that > > > > some classical promoters probably lap up, not surprising > considering > > > > that > > > > huge portions of the mega-narrative of classical music dreamed up > in > > > > the > > > > 19th century is equally ridiculous. But wasn't one of the aims of > the > > > > early > > > > music movement to try to get beyond these assumptions and myths. > > > > Mark > > > > -----Urspruengliche Nachricht----- > > > > Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > [[1]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im > > > > Auftrag > > > > von Sauvage Valery > > > > Gesendet: Sonntag, 20. Dezember 2009 15:58 > > > > An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > I'm not against guitar and guitar players (as a guitar player > myself, > > > > on > > > > romantic intrument ;-) but I don't understand why play a guitar > in form > > > > of a > > > > lute saying it is a lute, as I find my normal lute "forte" enough > in > > > > itself, > > > > that's all. And after, eveyone makes whatever he wants... > > > > V. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: <terli...@aol.com> > > > > To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:30 PM > > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: terli...@aol.com > > > > > To: chriswi...@yahoo.com > > > > > Sent: Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:22 am > > > > > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I write at the risk of being gummed to death by a horde of > irate > > > > > lutenists: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what kind of guitars and guitar playing lutenists > here > > > > have > > > > > been exposed to here but there is a wide variety of types of > guitars > > > > and > > > > > playing styles. Hauser style guitar guitars are very good for > playing > > > > some > > > > > lute music. Smallman type guitars are less good for playing > most lute > > > > > music. To play lute music decently on guitar takes a certain > > > > touch...there > > > > > are players that can do it. > > > > > The guitar (unamplified) works great great in ensemble playing > e.g > > > > Boulez: > > > > > Le marteau sans maA(R)tre: Webern op.18, > > > > > Takemitsu: Ring for Lute,flute and guitar... > > > > > Best, > > > > > Mark Delpriora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: chriswi...@yahoo.com > > > > > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Sauvage ValA(c)ry > <sauvag...@orange.fr> > > > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 19, 2009 6:18 pm > > > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Valery, > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 12/19/09, Sauvage ValA(c)ry <sauvag...@orange.fr> > wrote: > > > > >> Ok forte, > > > > >> we can hear it, but sounds like a guitar (single strung for > > > > >> the one he used). > > > > >> So why not play the guitar ? modern and loud instrument you > > > > >> can play with nails... > > > > > > > > > > Really? I've found the modern classical guitar to be a really, > > > > really > > > > > awful > > > > > ensemble instrument when dealing with anything else other than > other > > > > > classical > > > > > guitars or one other instrument/voice. While the signal coming > from > > > > it > > > > > may be > > > > > technically louder than most types of lutes, it is designed to > > > > emphasize > > > > > the > > > > > lower partials so that the sound is literally swallowed up by > other > > > > modern > > > > > instruments. This sort of dark timbre can be very effective for > a > > > > certain > > > > > portion (but not all) of the solo repertoire, but it really > loses its > > > > > charm in > > > > > other situations. This is why A) it MUST be played with nails > B) > > > > even > > > > > then it > > > > > doesn't project particularly well and C) you often hear the > > > > instrument > > > > > amplified > > > > > in even small ensembles. > > > > > > > > > > If you're going to amplify it, what's the point of using that > type of > > > > > guitar > > > > > (unless you want to make the amplification part of the effect > and > > > > timbre > > > > > itself, > > > > > a la George Crumb)? This is why I haven't used a classical > guitar in > > > > any > > > > > of my > > > > > ensemble music for years. A steel-string guitar works very well > > > > > unamplified in > > > > > a small ensemble and the electric guitar has no volume > limitations at > > > > all. > > > > > Contemporary composers would find much of interest in these > > > > instruments > > > > > and > > > > > modern classical guitarists would be well advised to think of > them as > > > > > alternate > > > > > versions of their instrument. Unfortunately, classical players > often > > > > > perceive > > > > > them as some kind of threat from outside the "official" guitar > world. > > > > > > > > > > I haven't found this same problem with lutes or theorbos. The > > > > emphasis of > > > > > higher partials means that the sound on both can cut through > quite > > > > well. > > > > > Play > > > > > close to the bridge and you can be heard most of the time. I've > been > > > > > thinking > > > > > of writing a duo for lute and modern guitar. Maybe now's the > time to > > > > > investigate the project. > > > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "wolfgang wiehe" > > > > <wie-w...@gmx.de> > > > > >> To: <terli...@aol.com>; > > > > >> <r.turov...@verizon.net>; > > > > >> <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > > > >> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 8:05 PM > > > > >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> I heard a "liuto forte" this year at our DLG meeting on > > > > >> "Burg > > > > >> Sternberg". Hmm, not louder than my g-lute...;-) > > > > >> Greetings > > > > >> W. > > > > >> > > > > >> -----UrsprA 1/4ngliche Nachricht----- > > > > >> Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > > > > >> [[2]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] > > > > >> Im > > > > >> Auftrag von terli...@aol.com > > > > >> Gesendet: Samstag, 19. Dezember 2009 19:41 > > > > >> An: r.turov...@verizon.net; > > > > >> lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > > > >> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> OR suitable for a guitarist who is NOT sick of the guitar > > > > >> repertoire! > > > > >> . and is happy with finger nails. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Roman, Did you go to the the demonstration of the liuto > > > > >> forte hat > > > > >> occurred at the Met Museum a year or 3 ago? > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> I missed it. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Mark Delpriora > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@verizon.net> > > > > >> To: Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > > > >> Sent: Sat, Dec 19, 2009 11:51 am > > > > >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> It is a single-strung lute and guitar hybrid designed by > > > > >> Andre Burguete, > > > > >> that aproximates lute sound while purporting to have the > > > > >> volume of the > > > > >> guitar. It uses nylon overspun with fine steel wire, and > > > > >> has some > > > > >> interesting and useful peculiarities in the bridge and > > > > >> soundboard > > > > >> construction. > > > > >> Fixed metal frets are supposedly less dampening to the > > > > >> sound > > > > >> (negligibly). > > > > >> This technology might yield a nice and loud theorbo in ET. > > > > >> But one really misses the overtone palette of double > > > > >> strings. > > > > >> It is a very suitable instrument for a guitarist who is > > > > >> sick of the > > > > >> guitar repertoire, but is unwilling to part with his > > > > >> nails. > > > > >> > > > > >> [3]http://www.liuto-forte.com/ > > > > >> There are a number of notable converts to it: Oliver > > > > >> Holzenburg, Luciano > > > > >> Contini et al. > > > > >> RT > > > > >> > > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Winheld" > > > > >> <dwinh...@comcast.net> > > > > >> To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > > > >> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 11:31 AM > > > > >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte > > > > >> > > > > >> > Alright, I'll bite- What in God's name is Liuto > > > > >> Forte? (I must have > > > > >> > been out of the office for this one) > > > > >> > thanks, Dan > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > __________________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. [1]Get it now. > -- > >References > > 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/ Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
