I agree.

ed

At 04:34 PM 12/22/2009, luther maynard wrote:
>    To each his own, but it sounds more like a Guitar than a Lute to my
>    ears.
>
>    LM
>    > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:54:00 +0000
>    > To: l...@pantagruel.de
>    > CC: sauvag...@orange.fr; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>    > From: mathias.roe...@t-online.de
>    > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>    >
>    > http://www.liuto-forte.com/ click on folder <Literatur/Audio>, then
>    on
>    > <Demoaufnahmen> on the left (Oliver Holzenburg, Anett Bartuschka,
>    > Christian Hostettler, Luciano Contini, Peter Autschbach).
>    >
>    > Mathias
>    >
>    > "Edward Martin" <e...@gamutstrings.com> schrieb:
>    > > I am curious... are there any professional recordings on liuto
>    forte?
>    > >
>    > > ed
>    > >
>    > > At 03:06 PM 12/21/2009, lute wrote:
>    > > >The text was used for a performance at a lute festival in Belgium.
>    > > >As you admit it does sound silly, there is no evidence that Bach
>    wrote 6
>    > > >suites for the lute, even that he was so very interested in the
>    lute.
>    > > >I am sure a lot of lutenists would love to think he was, but it
>    does not
>    > > >seem to have interested him a great deal.
>    > > >
>    > > >But maybe he could see into the future and wanted to write for an
>    instrument
>    > > >that was invented a few hundred years later....or maybe the liuto
>    forte is
>    > > >not a new instrument, but an idea stolen from the 18th century.
>    > > >
>    > > >There are also a number of modern performances on dminor baroque
>    lute so
>    > > >they do not seem to be "unplayable".
>    > > >
>    > > >All the best
>    > > >Mark
>    > > >
>    > > >
>    > > >p.S. Here is EB's programme presenting the reconstructed 6
>    suites....
>    > > >
>    > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: suite BWV 995
>    > > >prelude, allemande, courante, sarabande, gavottes 1 et 2, gigue.
>    > > >Joaquin RODRIGO: Sarabande lointaine.
>    > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: suite BWV 999
>    > > >(reconstitution E. Bellocq)
>    > > >prelude, fugue, sarabande, menuets 1, 2 et 3.
>    > > >Yuquijiro YOCOH: Sakura, theme et variations sur la chanson
>    traditionnelle
>    > > >japonaise.
>    > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: suite BWV 998
>    > > >prelude, fugue et allegro.
>    > > >
>    > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: suite BWV 996
>    > > >prelude, allemande, courante, sarabande, bourree, gigue.
>    > > >Wolfgang Amadeus MOZART: larghetto du Divertimento KV 439b n-o2.
>    > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: suite BWV 997
>    > > >prelude, fugue, sarabande, gigue et double.
>    > > >DEBUSSY: La fille aux cheveux de lin.
>    > > >Johann Sebastian BACH: suite BWV 1006a
>    > > >prelude, loure, gavotte en rondeau, menuets 1 et 2, bourree,
>    gigue.
>    > > >
>    > > >-----Urspruengliche Nachricht-----
>    > > >Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
>    Im Auftrag
>    > > >von Franz Mechsner
>    > > >Gesendet: Montag, 21. Dezember 2009 17:09
>    > > >An: Mark Wheeler; Sauvage Valery; lute
>    > > >Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>    > > >
>    > > > Dear Mark,
>    > > >
>    > > > where did you get Eric Bellocq's promotion text from? It sounds
>    indeed
>    > > > a little silly - but given how much work he semed to have
>    invested in
>    > > > research on Bach suites, and finally playing them in ABs (?)
>    tuning,
>    > > > one should do him justice before ridiculing him and make sure
>    what's
>    > > > the matter with this text... not everything is what it seems to
>    be...
>    > > >
>    > > > F
>    > > >
>    __________________________________________________________________
>    > > >
>    > > > Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu im Auftrag von Mark Wheeler
>    > > > Gesendet: So 20.12.2009 16:27
>    > > > An: 'Sauvage Valery'; lute
>    > > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>    > > >
>    > > > Well if you find playing "a guitar in form of a lute saying it is
>    a
>    > > > lute"
>    > > > strange then have a look at this promotion text from the same
>    > > > lutenist..
>    > > > "It is assumed that Bach, just as for the violin and the cello,
>    > > > composed six
>    > > > solo suites for lute. But only a few of these incredibly
>    difficult lute
>    > > > compositions have been preserved. Eric Bellocq accepted the
>    challenge
>    > > > and
>    > > > reconstructed a complete suite cycle. For this purpose, he had a
>    `luito
>    > > > forte' built, which all of a sudden makes these compositions
>    quite
>    > > > playable!"
>    > > > Who assumes that there are 6 solo suites for lute, where is the
>    > > > evidence?
>    > > > All of the surviving Bach compositions or arrangements have been
>    > > > recorded
>    > > > many times, so they are playable on a standard baroque lute.
>    > > > Eric's text is of course absolute hogwash, but it is the sort of
>    thing
>    > > > that
>    > > > some classical promoters probably lap up, not surprising
>    considering
>    > > > that
>    > > > huge portions of the mega-narrative of classical music dreamed up
>    in
>    > > > the
>    > > > 19th century is equally ridiculous. But wasn't one of the aims of
>    the
>    > > > early
>    > > > music movement to try to get beyond these assumptions and myths.
>    > > > Mark
>    > > > -----Urspruengliche Nachricht-----
>    > > > Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>    [[1]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im
>    > > > Auftrag
>    > > > von Sauvage Valery
>    > > > Gesendet: Sonntag, 20. Dezember 2009 15:58
>    > > > An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>    > > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>    > > > I'm not against guitar and guitar players (as a guitar player
>    myself,
>    > > > on
>    > > > romantic intrument ;-) but I don't understand why play a guitar
>    in form
>    > > > of a
>    > > > lute saying it is a lute, as I find my normal lute "forte" enough
>    in
>    > > > itself,
>    > > > that's all. And after, eveyone makes whatever he wants...
>    > > > V.
>    > > > ----- Original Message -----
>    > > > From: <terli...@aol.com>
>    > > > To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>    > > > Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:30 PM
>    > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > > -----Original Message-----
>    > > > > From: terli...@aol.com
>    > > > > To: chriswi...@yahoo.com
>    > > > > Sent: Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:22 am
>    > > > > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > > I write at the risk of being gummed to death by a horde of
>    irate
>    > > > > lutenists:
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > > I don't know what kind of guitars and guitar playing lutenists
>    here
>    > > > have
>    > > > > been exposed to here but there is a wide variety of types of
>    guitars
>    > > > and
>    > > > > playing styles. Hauser style guitar guitars are very good for
>    playing
>    > > > some
>    > > > > lute music. Smallman type guitars are less good for playing
>    most lute
>    > > > > music. To play lute music decently on guitar takes a certain
>    > > > touch...there
>    > > > > are players that can do it.
>    > > > > The guitar (unamplified) works great great in ensemble playing
>    e.g
>    > > > Boulez:
>    > > > > Le marteau sans maA(R)tre: Webern op.18,
>    > > > > Takemitsu: Ring for Lute,flute and guitar...
>    > > > > Best,
>    > > > > Mark Delpriora
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > > -----Original Message-----
>    > > > > From: chriswi...@yahoo.com
>    > > > > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Sauvage ValA(c)ry
>    <sauvag...@orange.fr>
>    > > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 19, 2009 6:18 pm
>    > > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > > Valery,
>    > > > >
>    > > > > --- On Sat, 12/19/09, Sauvage ValA(c)ry <sauvag...@orange.fr>
>    wrote:
>    > > > >> Ok forte,
>    > > > >> we can hear it, but sounds like a guitar (single strung for
>    > > > >> the one he used).
>    > > > >> So why not play the guitar ? modern and loud instrument you
>    > > > >> can play with nails...
>    > > > >
>    > > > > Really? I've found the modern classical guitar to be a really,
>    > > > really
>    > > > > awful
>    > > > > ensemble instrument when dealing with anything else other than
>    other
>    > > > > classical
>    > > > > guitars or one other instrument/voice. While the signal coming
>    from
>    > > > it
>    > > > > may be
>    > > > > technically louder than most types of lutes, it is designed to
>    > > > emphasize
>    > > > > the
>    > > > > lower partials so that the sound is literally swallowed up by
>    other
>    > > > modern
>    > > > > instruments. This sort of dark timbre can be very effective for
>    a
>    > > > certain
>    > > > > portion (but not all) of the solo repertoire, but it really
>    loses its
>    > > > > charm in
>    > > > > other situations. This is why A) it MUST be played with nails
>    B)
>    > > > even
>    > > > > then it
>    > > > > doesn't project particularly well and C) you often hear the
>    > > > instrument
>    > > > > amplified
>    > > > > in even small ensembles.
>    > > > >
>    > > > > If you're going to amplify it, what's the point of using that
>    type of
>    > > > > guitar
>    > > > > (unless you want to make the amplification part of the effect
>    and
>    > > > timbre
>    > > > > itself,
>    > > > > a la George Crumb)? This is why I haven't used a classical
>    guitar in
>    > > > any
>    > > > > of my
>    > > > > ensemble music for years. A steel-string guitar works very well
>    > > > > unamplified in
>    > > > > a small ensemble and the electric guitar has no volume
>    limitations at
>    > > > all.
>    > > > > Contemporary composers would find much of interest in these
>    > > > instruments
>    > > > > and
>    > > > > modern classical guitarists would be well advised to think of
>    them as
>    > > > > alternate
>    > > > > versions of their instrument. Unfortunately, classical players
>    often
>    > > > > perceive
>    > > > > them as some kind of threat from outside the "official" guitar
>    world.
>    > > > >
>    > > > > I haven't found this same problem with lutes or theorbos. The
>    > > > emphasis of
>    > > > > higher partials means that the sound on both can cut through
>    quite
>    > > > well.
>    > > > > Play
>    > > > > close to the bridge and you can be heard most of the time. I've
>    been
>    > > > > thinking
>    > > > > of writing a duo for lute and modern guitar. Maybe now's the
>    time to
>    > > > > investigate the project.
>    > > > >
>    > > > > Chris
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > >
>    > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "wolfgang wiehe"
>    > > > <wie-w...@gmx.de>
>    > > > >> To: <terli...@aol.com>;
>    > > > >> <r.turov...@verizon.net>;
>    > > > >> <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>    > > > >> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 8:05 PM
>    > > > >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> I heard a "liuto forte" this year at our DLG meeting on
>    > > > >> "Burg
>    > > > >> Sternberg". Hmm, not louder than my g-lute...;-)
>    > > > >> Greetings
>    > > > >> W.
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> -----UrsprA 1/4ngliche Nachricht-----
>    > > > >> Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>    > > > >> [[2]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
>    > > > >> Im
>    > > > >> Auftrag von terli...@aol.com
>    > > > >> Gesendet: Samstag, 19. Dezember 2009 19:41
>    > > > >> An: r.turov...@verizon.net;
>    > > > >> lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>    > > > >> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> OR suitable for a guitarist who is NOT sick of the guitar
>    > > > >> repertoire!
>    > > > >> . and is happy with finger nails.
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> Roman, Did you go to the the demonstration of the liuto
>    > > > >> forte hat
>    > > > >> occurred at the Met Museum a year or 3 ago?
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> I missed it.
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> Mark Delpriora
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> -----Original Message-----
>    > > > >> From: Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@verizon.net>
>    > > > >> To: Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>    > > > >> Sent: Sat, Dec 19, 2009 11:51 am
>    > > > >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> It is a single-strung lute and guitar hybrid designed by
>    > > > >> Andre Burguete,
>    > > > >> that aproximates lute sound while purporting to have the
>    > > > >> volume of the
>    > > > >> guitar. It uses nylon overspun with fine steel wire, and
>    > > > >> has some
>    > > > >> interesting and useful peculiarities in the bridge and
>    > > > >> soundboard
>    > > > >> construction.
>    > > > >> Fixed metal frets are supposedly less dampening to the
>    > > > >> sound
>    > > > >> (negligibly).
>    > > > >> This technology might yield a nice and loud theorbo in ET.
>    > > > >> But one really misses the overtone palette of double
>    > > > >> strings.
>    > > > >> It is a very suitable instrument for a guitarist who is
>    > > > >> sick of the
>    > > > >> guitar repertoire, but is unwilling to part with his
>    > > > >> nails.
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> [3]http://www.liuto-forte.com/
>    > > > >> There are a number of notable converts to it: Oliver
>    > > > >> Holzenburg, Luciano
>    > > > >> Contini et al.
>    > > > >> RT
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Winheld"
>    > > > >> <dwinh...@comcast.net>
>    > > > >> To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>    > > > >> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 11:31 AM
>    > > > >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>    > > > >>
>    > > > >> > Alright, I'll bite- What in God's name is Liuto
>    > > > >> Forte? (I must have
>    > > > >> > been out of the office for this one)
>    > > > >> > thanks, Dan
>    >
>    >
>    >
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>    > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
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Edward Martin
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