From: luther maynard <luthermayn...@live.com>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
To: mathias.roe...@t-online.de, l...@pantagruel.de
Cc: sauvag...@orange.fr, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 5:34 PM
To each his own,
but it sounds more like a Guitar than a Lute to my
ears.
LM
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:54:00
+0000
> To: l...@pantagruel.de
> CC: sauvag...@orange.fr;
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> From: mathias.roe...@t-online.de
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>
> http://www.liuto-forte.com/ click on folder
<Literatur/Audio>, then
on
> <Demoaufnahmen> on the left
(Oliver Holzenburg, Anett Bartuschka,
> Christian Hostettler, Luciano
Contini, Peter Autschbach).
>
> Mathias
>
> "Edward Martin" <e...@gamutstrings.com>
schrieb:
> > I am curious... are there any
professional recordings on liuto
forte?
> >
> > ed
> >
> > At 03:06 PM 12/21/2009, lute
wrote:
> > >The text was used for a
performance at a lute festival in Belgium.
> > >As you admit it does sound
silly, there is no evidence that Bach
wrote 6
> > >suites for the lute, even
that he was so very interested in the
lute.
> > >I am sure a lot of
lutenists would love to think he was, but it
does not
> > >seem to have interested him
a great deal.
> > >
> > >But maybe he could see into
the future and wanted to write for an
instrument
> > >that was invented a few
hundred years later....or maybe the liuto
forte is
> > >not a new instrument, but
an idea stolen from the 18th century.
> > >
> > >There are also a number of
modern performances on dminor baroque
lute so
> > >they do not seem to be
"unplayable".
> > >
> > >All the best
> > >Mark
> > >
> > >
> > >p.S. Here is EB's programme
presenting the reconstructed 6
suites....
> > >
> > >Johann Sebastian BACH:
suite BWV 995
> > >prelude, allemande,
courante, sarabande, gavottes 1 et 2, gigue.
> > >Joaquin RODRIGO: Sarabande
lointaine.
> > >Johann Sebastian BACH:
suite BWV 999
> > >(reconstitution E.
Bellocq)
> > >prelude, fugue, sarabande,
menuets 1, 2 et 3.
> > >Yuquijiro YOCOH: Sakura,
theme et variations sur la chanson
traditionnelle
> > >japonaise.
> > >Johann Sebastian BACH:
suite BWV 998
> > >prelude, fugue et allegro.
> > >
> > >Johann Sebastian BACH:
suite BWV 996
> > >prelude, allemande,
courante, sarabande, bourree, gigue.
> > >Wolfgang Amadeus MOZART:
larghetto du Divertimento KV 439b n-o2.
> > >Johann Sebastian BACH:
suite BWV 997
> > >prelude, fugue, sarabande,
gigue et double.
> > >DEBUSSY: La fille aux
cheveux de lin.
> > >Johann Sebastian BACH:
suite BWV 1006a
> > >prelude, loure, gavotte en
rondeau, menuets 1 et 2, bourree,
gigue.
> > >
> > >-----Urspruengliche
Nachricht-----
> > >Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
Im Auftrag
> > >von Franz Mechsner
> > >Gesendet: Montag, 21.
Dezember 2009 17:09
> > >An: Mark Wheeler; Sauvage
Valery; lute
> > >Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto
forte
> > >
> > > Dear Mark,
> > >
> > > where did you get Eric
Bellocq's promotion text from? It sounds
indeed
> > > a little silly - but given
how much work he semed to have
invested in
> > > research on Bach suites,
and finally playing them in ABs (?)
tuning,
> > > one should do him justice
before ridiculing him and make sure
what's
> > > the matter with this
text... not everything is what it seems to
be..
> > >
> > > F
> > >
__________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
im Auftrag von Mark Wheeler
> > > Gesendet: So 20.12.2009
16:27
> > > An: 'Sauvage Valery';
lute
> > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto
forte
> > >
> > > Well if you find playing
"a guitar in form of a lute saying it is
a
> > > lute"
> > > strange then have a look
at this promotion text from the same
> > > lutenist..
> > > "It is assumed that Bach,
just as for the violin and the cello,
> > > composed six
> > > solo suites for lute. But
only a few of these incredibly
difficult lute
> > > compositions have been
preserved. Eric Bellocq accepted the
challenge
> > > and
> > > reconstructed a complete
suite cycle. For this purpose, he had a
`luito
> > > forte' built, which all of
a sudden makes these compositions
quite
> > > playable!"
> > > Who assumes that there are
6 solo suites for lute, where is the
> > > evidence?
> > > All of the surviving Bach
compositions or arrangements have been
> > > recorded
> > > many times, so they are
playable on a standard baroque lute.
> > > Eric's text is of course
absolute hogwash, but it is the sort of
thing
> > > that
> > > some classical promoters
probably lap up, not surprising
considering
> > > that
> > > huge portions of the
mega-narrative of classical music dreamed up
in
> > > the
> > > 19th century is equally
ridiculous. But wasn't one of the aims of
the
> > > early
> > > music movement to try to
get beyond these assumptions and myths.
> > > Mark
> > > -----Urspruengliche
Nachricht-----
> > > Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[[1]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
Im
> > > Auftrag
> > > von Sauvage Valery
> > > Gesendet: Sonntag, 20.
Dezember 2009 15:58
> > > An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto
forte
> > > I'm not against guitar and
guitar players (as a guitar player
myself,
> > > on
> > > romantic intrument ;-) but
I don't understand why play a guitar
in form
> > > of a
> > > lute saying it is a lute,
as I find my normal lute "forte" enough
in
> > > itself,
> > > that's all. And after,
eveyone makes whatever he wants...
> > > V.
> > > ----- Original Message
-----
> > > From: <terli...@aol.com>
> > > To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 20,
2009 3:30 PM
> > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto
forte
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original
Message-----
> > > > From: terli...@aol.com
> > > > To: chriswi...@yahoo.com
> > > > Sent: Sun, Dec 20,
2009 9:22 am
> > > > Subject: Re: [LUTE]
Re: Liuto forte
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I write at the risk
of being gummed to death by a horde of
irate
> > > > lutenists:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I don't know what
kind of guitars and guitar playing lutenists
here
> > > have
> > > > been exposed to here
but there is a wide variety of types of
guitars
> > > and
> > > > playing styles.
Hauser style guitar guitars are very good for
playing
> > > some
> > > > lute music. Smallman
type guitars are less good for playing
most lute
> > > > music. To play lute
music decently on guitar takes a certain
> > > touch...there
> > > > are players that can
do it.
> > > > The guitar
(unamplified) works great great in ensemble playing
e.g
> > > Boulez:
> > > > Le marteau sans
maA(R)tre: Webern op.18,
> > > > Takemitsu: Ring for
Lute,flute and guitar...
> > > > Best,
> > > > Mark Delpriora
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original
Message-----
> > > > From: chriswi...@yahoo.com
> > > > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;
Sauvage ValA(c)ry
<sauvag...@orange.fr>
> > > > Sent: Sat, Dec 19,
2009 6:18 pm
> > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re:
Liuto forte
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Valery,
> > > >
> > > > --- On Sat, 12/19/09,
Sauvage ValA(c)ry <sauvag...@orange.fr>
wrote:
> > > >> Ok forte,
> > > >> we can hear it,
but sounds like a guitar (single strung for
> > > >> the one he
used).
> > > >> So why not play
the guitar ? modern and loud instrument you
> > > >> can play with
nails...
> > > >
> > > > Really? I've found
the modern classical guitar to be a really,
> > > really
> > > > awful
> > > > ensemble instrument
when dealing with anything else other than
other
> > > > classical
> > > > guitars or one other
instrument/voice. While the signal coming
from
> > > it
> > > > may be
> > > > technically louder
than most types of lutes, it is designed to
> > > emphasize
> > > > the
> > > > lower partials so
that the sound is literally swallowed up by
other
> > > modern
> > > > instruments. This
sort of dark timbre can be very effective for
a
> > > certain
> > > > portion (but not all)
of the solo repertoire, but it really
loses its
> > > > charm in
> > > > other situations.
This is why A) it MUST be played with nails
B)
> > > even
> > > > then it
> > > > doesn't project
particularly well and C) you often hear the
> > > instrument
> > > > amplified
> > > > in even small
ensembles.
> > > >
> > > > If you're going to
amplify it, what's the point of using that
type of
> > > > guitar
> > > > (unless you want to
make the amplification part of the effect
and
> > > timbre
> > > > itself,
> > > > a la George Crumb)?
This is why I haven't used a classical
guitar in
> > > any
> > > > of my
> > > > ensemble music for
years. A steel-string guitar works very well
> > > > unamplified in
> > > > a small ensemble and
the electric guitar has no volume
limitations at
> > > all.
> > > > Contemporary
composers would find much of interest in these
> > > instruments
> > > > and
> > > > modern classical
guitarists would be well advised to think of
them as
> > > > alternate
> > > > versions of their
instrument. Unfortunately, classical players
often
> > > > perceive
> > > > them as some kind of
threat from outside the "official" guitar
world.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't found this
same problem with lutes or theorbos. The
> > > emphasis of
> > > > higher partials means
that the sound on both can cut through
quite
> > > well.
> > > > Play
> > > > close to the bridge
and you can be heard most of the time. I've
been
> > > > thinking
> > > > of writing a duo for
lute and modern guitar. Maybe now's the
time to
> > > > investigate the
project.
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> ----- Original
Message ----- From: "wolfgang wiehe"
> > > <wie-w...@gmx.de>
> > > >> To: <terli...@aol.com>;
> > > >> <r.turov...@verizon.net>;
> > > >> <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > > >> Sent: Saturday,
December 19, 2009 8:05 PM
> > > >> Subject: [LUTE]
Re: Liuto forte
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I heard a "liuto
forte" this year at our DLG meeting on
> > > >> "Burg
> > > >> Sternberg". Hmm,
not louder than my g-lute...;-)
> > > >> Greetings
> > > >> W.
> > > >>
> > > >> -----UrsprA
1/4ngliche Nachricht-----
> > > >> Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > > >> [[2]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
> > > >> Im
> > > >> Auftrag von terli...@aol.com
> > > >> Gesendet:
Samstag, 19. Dezember 2009 19:41
> > > >> An: r.turov...@verizon.net;
> > > >> lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > > >> Betreff: [LUTE]
Re: Liuto forte
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> OR suitable for a
guitarist who is NOT sick of the guitar
> > > >> repertoire!
> > > >> . and is happy
with finger nails.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Roman, Did you go
to the the demonstration of the liuto
> > > >> forte hat
> > > >> occurred at the
Met Museum a year or 3 ago?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I missed it.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Mark Delpriora
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original
Message-----
> > > >> From: Roman
Turovsky <r.turov...@verizon.net>
> > > >> To: Lutelist
<lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > > >> Sent: Sat, Dec
19, 2009 11:51 am
> > > >> Subject: [LUTE]
Re: Liuto forte
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> It is a
single-strung lute and guitar hybrid designed by
> > > >> Andre Burguete,
> > > >> that aproximates
lute sound while purporting to have the
> > > >> volume of the
> > > >> guitar. It uses
nylon overspun with fine steel wire, and
> > > >> has some
> > > >> interesting and
useful peculiarities in the bridge and
> > > >> soundboard
> > > >> construction.
> > > >> Fixed metal frets
are supposedly less dampening to the
> > > >> sound
> > > >> (negligibly).
> > > >> This technology
might yield a nice and loud theorbo in ET.
> > > >> But one really
misses the overtone palette of double
> > > >> strings.
> > > >> It is a very
suitable instrument for a guitarist who is
> > > >> sick of the
> > > >> guitar
repertoire, but is unwilling to part with his
> > > >> nails.
> > > >>
> > > >> [3]http://www.liuto-forte.com/
> > > >> There are a
number of notable converts to it: Oliver
> > > >> Holzenburg,
Luciano
> > > >> Contini et al.
> > > >> RT
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original
Message ----- From: "Daniel Winheld"
> > > >> <dwinh...@comcast.net>
> > > >> To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > > >> Sent: Saturday,
December 19, 2009 11:31 AM
> > > >> Subject: [LUTE]
Re: Liuto forte
> > > >>
> > > >> > Alright,
I'll bite- What in God's name is Liuto
> > > >> Forte? (I must
have
> > > >> > been out of
the office for this one)
> > > >> > thanks, Dan
>
>
>
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