Well - our vicar can't even intone the Gospel on one note without ending at least a tone lower than where he started.
Perhaps musical historians don't realize how complex plainchant is and how difficult it is to sing well. Monica ----- Original Message ----- From: [1]Ron Andrico To: [2]Monica Hall ; [3]chriswi...@yahoo.com Cc: [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 3:19 PM Subject: RE: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules correction! Thank you for the clarifications, Monica. I was tempted to add my two sense but your words more effectively expressed my reaction. At the risk of mumbling this topic to death, I will add that our practical experience pretty much confirms your observations. We have had some very interesting experiences with celebrants unintentionally intoning the Gloria microtonally and ending an eleventh or so from where the polyphony begins. We have been smoked out of the choir loft by overenthusiastic Easter vigil arsonists, we have endured the curled lips of outspoken members of the congregation who think the 'low mass' (no music) is just fine because they want to go home sooner. I am sorry that the experience of singing the Latin Mass is not available to more music historians, who are otherwise forced to gain their impressions from reading about it. It really does help one understand that the 'mystical' sound of chant and sacred polyphony was and is functional music. RA > Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 14:38:04 +0000 > To: chriswi...@yahoo.com > CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > From: mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules correction! > > Sorry - I would question a lot of what you are saying. It depends what > you mean by "smaller" Catholic churches. Most peasants lived in small > scattered rural communites and the clergy who ministered to them were > not necessarily highly educated or particularly musical. If they did > perform plainsong it would not have been a la Solesmes. Illiterate > peasants would not have been familiar with a high brow repertoire of > plainsong because the clergy would not have been capable of performing > it nor would they have had the scores to perform it from. Even today a > lot of the clergy can't sing in tune. > > > > Attendance at Mass may have been mandatory (was it?) but that doesn't > prove that everyone attended or that they would have been particularly > reverent when they did. The whole service would have been in Latin - > which most peasants would not have understood. The clergy would often > have been separated from the "congregation" by the screen. > > > > Moreover I am not talking about relatively recent times. When I said > "happy clappy" stuff I meant it would have been the sort of "popular" > music that they were familiar with. > > > > There does seem to me to be a very rosy view of how people lived in the > past. > > > > Monica > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [1]Christopher Wilke > > To: [2]Ron Andrico ; [3]Monica Hall > > Cc: [4]Lutelist > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 12:22 PM > > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules correction! > > Monica, > Smaller Catholic churches may or may not have had the performing > resources to present much in the way of elaborate polyphony, but they > would have certainly had plainchant either sung by hired singers or the > priests and deacons themselves. By and large, the congregation did not > participate in singing. Church music practice up until relatively > recent times would be a far cry from the "happy-clappy" stuff, which > was introduced in an attempt to get people more involved. Remember, > too, that aside from the ordinary and proper items, large portions of > the Mass were recited by the priests to formulaic psalm tones. In some > cases, the entire service was sung throughout. > As Mass attendance in olden times was mandatory, even the lowliest, > illiterate peasant would have been very familiar with what we tend to > think of as fairly high brow repertoire. It is hard to believe that > this music wouldn't have functioned as a (possibly subconscious) > cultural lingua franca in non-church items. > Chris > Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. > Music Faculty > Nazareth College, Rochester, NY > State University of New York at Geneseo > Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer > www.christopherwilke.com > --- On Fri, 3/16/12, Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: > > The kind of church music that we are thinking of would have been > performed in cathedrals and other important church establishments but > the average person would not have attended services in such prestigious > locations and if they had any music at all at their parish churches it > would probably have been the equivalent of today's happy clappy. > The other thing is that secular music doesn't leave such a voluminous > paper trail behind it and obviously a lot of it was semi-improvised. > Fascinating topic though. > Monica > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Andrico" > <[5]praelu...@hotmail.com> > To: <[6]l...@pantagruel.de> > Cc: <[7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 12:36 AM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Nazi rules correction! > > Dear Mark: > > Thanks for your considerate response. Of course we are aiming for > the > > same thing from different directions: The thought occurs to me > that, in > > Europe, there probably is a plentiful supply of choral groups > > dominating the early music scene with concerts of sacred polyphony, > and > > Pantagruel likely provides a lively alternative with well-chosen > themed > > concerts. Here in the US, it seems to be the other way round. > While > > we are more than happy to indulge in some lowdown funky music (at > least > > I am), there are several groups here filling the secular early > music > > niche. Funny that. > > As for the 'TV' reference, we thought you were showing your > erudition > > by referencing the Latin, tempus veritas. > > Best, > > RA -- References 1. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com 2. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 3. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com 4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
