Yes, two different trees. Red cedar will be much softer. My music teacher (no longer with us, unfortunately) had a lute built by Larry Lundy in the 70s that had a red cedar top and I loved the sound of it. I have a red cedar soundboard that I'm planning to put on a lute to try and duplicate that sound.
Northern Tonewoods harvests dead standing red spruce in Canada under a license from the Canadian government. I emailed Dan Larson when I got the idea of using red spruce and he was encouraging. He warned about difficulties in carving the rose because the wood is stiffer than other spruces, but my roses are pretty simple and I didn't notice any particular problems. I just need to finish the lute so I can hear what it sounds like. I should say that I've built two lutes using Englemann spruce and I like that too. Tim Sent from my iPad On May 17, 2012, at 8:55 PM, Mark Day <lautenmac...@gmail.com> wrote: > Red cedar and red Spruce are two different trees. Both are native to > North America. red spruce (picea rubens) is also known by Adirondack > spruce and comes from, you guessed it; the Eastern part of North > America along the Adirondack range. Western red cedar (Thuja plicata) > is native to the Pacific Northwest. > Adirondack or red spruce is famed for pre-war Martin guitars. It is > supposed to exhibit properties close to that of European spruces which > is not surprising since at one time the western shore of Europe and the > eastern shore of North America where probably one. I don't know of > anyone who has made the connection and tried it for a lute yet, but > it's on my bucket list of things to do. It is very expensive and > difficult to get wide pieces because it was indiscriminately logged out > by our thoughtful ancestors, but you can still get it. > Western red cedar is offered as an option by Dan Larson and Mel Wong > told me one of the nicest sounding lutes he built had a WRC top, and I > re-topped my cheap Pakistani-built lute with a WRC top and it sounds > beautiful. > My first "from scratch" build was a vihuela with an Engleman spruce > top. I think it also sounds very nice despite my inexperience in > luthiery. > Cheers, > Mark > > On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 7:52 PM, James Jackson > <[1]weirdgeor...@googlemail.com> wrote: > > Shouldn't red spruce be synonymous with red cedar? > I've heard of cedar topped lutes - from what I understand (And I > really > don't understand much yet!), cedar can work well on smaller lutes, > A, > B, C and D ren lutes. > Unless I'm getting this wrong and red spruce IS different? > My Englemann soundboard arrived. It's really an excellent piece of > timber. No run out, or short grain, amazing tap tone, feels lovely > and > dry crispy under thumb, and the grain is VERY fine in the area > where > the rose is to be cut, which is a plus! > It's actually the nicest soundboard I've bought yet...I've bought > several middle grade Alpine spruce boards, non of them have the > tap > tone or the lack of short grain this one has. I'm very happy! > On 17 May 2012 22:57, Tim@Buckeye > <[1][2]tam...@buckeye-express.com> > > wrote: > James, > To further confuse the issue, Northern Tonewoods offers Red Spruce > soundboards. > > [2][3]http://www.hvgb.net/~tonewood/acousticguitar.htm > > I'm in the middle of building an A lute with one of their > soundboards. Tap tone is very clear and bright. I don't know how > the > lute will sound, but it should be pretty bright. > Tim > Sent from my iPhone > On May 17, 2012, at 8:06 AM, James Jackson > > <[3][4]weirdgeor...@googlemail.com> wrote: >> Thanks for your advice, >> >> I've decided to go for Englemann. I'm going for grade 7 (Second > down >> from highest on their grade) which the timber supplier describes > as >> "Near perfection - very slow growth, the widest >> growth ring approximately 2mm within the template area. >> Very limited acceptance of colour variation, otherwise same as >> grade 8. Best possible quartering and >> the minimum possible run-out (short grain). The wood will >> be stiff with a high pitched tap tone." >> So hopefully, I should be in for a good soundboard!! >> James. > >> On 16 May 2012 13:35, Louis Aull <[1][4][5]aul...@comcast.net> > wrote: >> >> James, >> The high grade Englemann I have used produces a very warm > full >> sound. >> It is also by far the best looking wood. It has to be about > 20% >> thicker >> than Alpine for the same strength. I have not worked with > Alpine >> because the few pieces I have purchased (top grade) were of > poor >> quality by comparison. I like to use Sitka spruce on ren > lutes > for >> it's >> brightness. >> Now some words of caution: the soft part of the wood is very > soft >> and >> will pull out with tape. Chip carving on Englemann is > extremely >> difficult due to that softness. It would rather tear than > cut. >> Other >> rosette carving produces a lot of fuzz and is difficult. I > don't >> bother with the chip carving and focus on perfecting the > rosette. >> The >> only tape I have found that will not pull the soft wood out > is >> drafting >> tape, used and removed with great caution. I usually leave a > few >> tenths >> of mm around the edges for the final sanding to get the > divots > in >> the >> soft wood flat again. It soaks up dirt, stain, and varnish > like > a >> sponge so plan on being more cleanly. That same sponge effect >> makes it >> glue better. Anyone who plays one of my Englemann lutes wears > a >> pinky >> protector or does not touch the top. (Including Hoppy Smith) >> Is it worth it? To me, no doubt. After my first Englemann > top, > I >> wouldn't play the others. I have since replaced all the other >> tops. >> Louis Aull >> -- >> To get on or off this list see list information at > >> > [2][5][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. mailto:[6][7]aul...@comcast.net >> 2. > [7][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > -- > References > 1. mailto:[9]tam...@buckeye-express.com > 2. [10]http://www.hvgb.net/~tonewood/acousticguitar.htm > 3. mailto:[11]weirdgeor...@googlemail.com > 4. mailto:[12]aul...@comcast.net > 5. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 6. mailto:[14]aul...@comcast.net > 7. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > Mark Day > [16]http://neowalla.smugmug.com/ > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:weirdgeor...@googlemail.com > 2. mailto:tam...@buckeye-express.com > 3. http://www.hvgb.net/%7Etonewood/acousticguitar.htm > 4. mailto:weirdgeor...@googlemail.com > 5. mailto:aul...@comcast.net > 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > 7. mailto:aul...@comcast.net > 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > 9. mailto:tam...@buckeye-express.com > 10. http://www.hvgb.net/%7Etonewood/acousticguitar.htm > 11. mailto:weirdgeor...@googlemail.com > 12. mailto:aul...@comcast.net > 13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > 14. mailto:aul...@comcast.net > 15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > 16. http://neowalla.smugmug.com/ >
