On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 12:57:06 +0100, Monica Hall wrote > I think you are confusing the issue here. There is no such thing as > an "lute-shaped guitar". What Meucci is saying that the term > "chitarra" in early (15th -16th century) Italian sources refers to > an instrument of the lute family not to a figure-of-eight shaped instrument.
I shure hope this is what Meucci meant. > The meaning of words changes with the passage of time. Even worse: there's no definite meaning atached to 'chitarra' during that period. Unfortunately, at the end of the 15th century some theorists decided to switch from the well-established medieval latin terms to some fancy anticisizing terms. So we end up with "chitarra" in Tinctoris and Gafrius. Chitarra could mean: Lute, small Lute/gittern, Harp and at some point also the instrument we now call "Renaissance Guitar". So - a "Chitarrone" is "a large stringed instrument". Not very helpful :-) Cheers, RalfD > Monica > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <r.turov...@gmail.com> > To: "Monica Hall" <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> > Cc: "Bruno Correia" <bruno.l...@gmail.com>; "Lutelist" > <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:21 PM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Chitarrone > > > The argument is that chitarrone is the bass variety of Italian lute-shaped > > guitar, that later was theorboed, and eventually conflated > > with theorbo. > > And this makes perfect sense. > > RT > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/17/2012 4:04 AM, Monica Hall wrote: > >> In a nutshell what Meucci has argued is that the term "chitarra" is > >> derived from the Greek term "kithara" which refers to any plucked > >> stringed instrument. In early Italian sources "chitarra" refers to a > >> small member of the lute family not to the figure of 8 shaped guitar. > >> > >> The guitar was almost unknown in Italy until the early 17th century and > >> is almost invariably known as the "chitarra spagnola" to distinguish it > >> from the "chitarra italiana". > >> > >> The "chitarrone" is a large lute - not a large guitar. The > >> inter-relationship between the chitarrone and the Spanish guitar in the > >> early song repertoire is a complex one but it does seem that the chordal > >> style of playing associated with the guitar did have some influence on > >> lute accompaniments. > >> > >> I am afraid Groves is not a very reliable source of information for a lot > >> of lute/guitar related topics. > >> > >> Best > >> > >> Monica > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruno Correia" <bruno.l...@gmail.com> > >> To: "List LUTELIST" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 2:11 AM > >> Subject: [LUTE] Chitarrone > >> > >> > >>> The Grove Dictionaire says about the chitarrone: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> "The type of lute denoted by this humanist, classicizing term > >>> (chitarrone means, literally, a large kithara) was associated > >>> particularly with Jacopo Peri, Giulio Caccini and the other early > >>> writers of monody from the 1590s until about 1630." > >>> > >>> Has anybody challenged this etymology? Wouldn't be safe to say it > >>> simply derived from the chitarra (guitar)? Is was developed in the > >>> first place to acompany, playing chordally from a contino line, just > >>> as > >>> the 5 course guitar would do, though without the struming technique. > >>> The solo repertoire that came later looks very close to the guitar > >>> writing: chords a little counterpoint, arpeggios, slurs, campanellas > >>> efect e so on... > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> Bruno Correia > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao > >>> > >>> historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. > >>> > >>> Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela > >>> > >>> Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> > >>> To get on or off this list see list information at > >>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >> > >> > > > > -- R. Mattes - Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de
