In re: "horse-thieves and revolutionaries of all colors among our
ancestors." Indeed, even the ancestors of this Mayflower descendant.
And don't forget our beloved Anglo-Saxon motto: "Think locally, act
globally." :-(
Chris.
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Roman Turovsky
<[1]r.turov...@verizon.net> wrote:
To tell you how I know this:
Some 10 years ago I embarked on a search for a branch of the family
that was missing for 80 years in South Africa (their surname was
SAUTSCHECK, and the search was successful, all SouthAfrican cousins
were found! (the few NorthAmerican were not...)).
In the process I came into contact with professional
historians/genealogists, and have been bluntly informed by them that
THERE WERE NO NAME CHANGES AT ELLIS ISLAND, for aforementioned
reasons.
What was in fact more common is that many people were traveling with
forged, bought or stolen documents. There were horse-thieves and
revolutionaries of many colors among our ancestors.
RT
On 5/8/2013 3:15 PM, Dan Winheld wrote:
Name checking against a ship's manifest sounds too logical to be
dismissed. More likely mangling happened during hasty, crowded
embarkations; where legality & taxonomic scrupulousness were more
ephemeral- but the errors only coming to light at Ellis Island, where
the shouting itself (according to descendants of the original
Choderowski to Toder transformation) finally occurred. Naturalization?
Sure- passport office? Not so sure- but maybe any old spelling just to
expedite getting out of the old country.
Congratulations on bringing Turovsky through the tunnel unscathed, and
we know my grandad was himself to blame for surname self-mangling. As
one of my wife's other relatives once said ruefully in regard to a
surprise spelling- "Vell, I haff alveys pronounced mine wubbleyous mit
a "Vee".
Dan
On 5/8/2013 11:33 AM, [2]r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:
Dan,
The purported "Ellis Island" name manglings is a myth.
Every immigrant's name had to be and was matched to the ship's
manifest, and any deviation was massively illegal.
So any changes people claim were made either at naturalization, or at
the passport office in the "old country".
Cheers,
RT
On 5/8/2013 12:05 PM, Dan Winheld wrote:
For a while (in the Siena book, anyway) Francesco was "da Parigi"- but
in the end just a vacation- "Busman's Holiday". And of course, Alberto
da Ripa- who stayed in France, but then Francophoned to "de Rippe",
like Jean Paul Paladin- "Had lute, would travel". It can get
complicated; Ottaviano dei Petrucci- da Fossombrone & Venezia.
Some European surnames imposed on the unwilling were less than
complimentary- Katzenellenbogen (Cat's Elbow) for example. And in the
United States there is a whole class of newly manufactured names based
solely on language mangling at Ellis Island by overworked &
undereducated immigration officials. My wife's mother's family name
"Choderowski" is now "Toder". My own grandfather, fluent in Russian and
French, but not yet English, attempted to anglicise the family name
from "Winogradski" to Winheld. Swing and a miss; no one to blame but
himself- "Winheld" has no meaning in any terrestrial tongue.
Danielito de New York, but "da Berkeley" since 1987.
On 5/8/2013 5:24 AM, Christopher Wilke wrote:
Tobiah,
Nothing wrong with calling him "da Milano," although in
actually
usage he's one of the few, like Michelangelo or Josquin, who are
frequently referred to by first name. We do say, "da Vinci." Yes,
this
literally translates to "of ______," but place names were - and are
-
common surnames. They happen in most European languages, i.e. the
French "de Visee," "de Gaulle," etc. Sometimes, the modifier might
be
honorific or an indication of noble lineage; sometimes not. Anton
von
Webern had to drop his "von" because of Austrian government
regulation
following WWI.
The first part may be left off, but this is optional and largely
dictated by tradition. We usually refer to Giovanni Pierluigi as
"Palestrina" and seldom "da Palestrina," and it is more common to
hear
of "Beethoven" rather than "van Beethoven" - which is actually a
Dutch,
rather than German name. (Or you could go with "Ludwig van," like
in a
Clockwork Orange.) On the other hand, one never hears about "Gogh"
without his "van."
Chris
Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
[3]www.christopherwilke.com
--- On Tue, 5/7/13, Tobiah <[4]t...@tobiah.org> wrote:
From: Tobiah <[5]t...@tobiah.org>
Subject: [LUTE] Frank from Milan
To: "'Lute Net'" <[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2013, 10:43 PM
Ok, my last college class was 20 year ago now. I thought
that I was told that "Francesco Canova da Milano" basically
meant "Francesco Canova from Milan (Italy)". I was reading the
surprisingly brief wikipedia article about the aforementioned
individual, and I came across this:
A composition called "Canzona by Francesco da Milano" (better known
as
the song "The City of Gold") is commonly misattributed to da
Milano.
So, if I am not grossly mistaken about my interpretation of the
entire handle with which we refer to the beloved 'Frank', then
I wonder if it can at all be correct to refer to him as
"da Milano". Wouldn't that be like one of you referencing
this letter and remarking that it was written by "From California"?
I expect much from the ever flowing fount of knowledge and wisdom
that is this list!
Thanks,
Tobiah
To get on or off this list see list information at
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--
References
1. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:r.turov...@verizon.net
2. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
3. http://www.christopherwilke.com/
4. mailto:t...@tobiah.org
5. mailto:t...@tobiah.org
6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
