Dear Ones, When speaking of polyphony on a steel string guitar, please see this link:
http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/berget-sienasteel/ A duet partner of mine, Paul Berget, recorded this years ago. He recorded selections of the Siena in 2 recordings, one on lute, one on steel string guitar. You can freely listen to the entire CD. Authentic instrument? No, but very musical and I for one enjoy it very much. ed, heading to Utrecht on Tuesday! At 12:29 PM 8/23/2013, Dan Winheld wrote: >Franz; > >Very well reasoned & eloquently written response- you have made me >quite curious to see & try one of these things out. I have >an instrument of my own that fits no historical classification but >provides an alternative tone color; a seven string steel-string >guitar acquired cheaply on a whim while awaiting the completion of >my vihuela. I have it strung/tuned as a "G" tenor lute at a=415; it >works best as a fake Orpharion (flexibility of modern steel strings >allows tuning to the relative Bandora intervals, more creative >fakery!) Of course, it is no closer to a real Orpharion/Bandora than >the modern Classical guitar is to the lute, but it does provide that >wire string sound- and is far more satisfactory for Renaissance >music than the modern Classical guitar with its boomy, opaque bass >response and dull lack of clarity (on most guitars) if played without nails. > >One more wrinkle about polyphonically oriented lutes- My Chambure >model vihuela is strung with a doubled 1st course. This has the >salutary effect of integrating that course with all the others in >tone color; becoming the "soprano" section of the choir instead of >the solo prima donna, singing alone above the chorus. But it took >time to work out the best tension/diameter/pitch combination- and >then, the very hard work (for me) of refining the right hand touch >for clean sound without clashing or twanging of the strings- which >then benefits good touch on all other courses as well. > > While done or at least attempted historically at certain times, > the doubled 1st seems to have been mostly considered too > troublesome (and probably too expensive!) to be worth while over > the longest haul. But we do have Caravaggio's paintings showing at > least one doubled 1st on a 7 course, and then on up to Dowland's > and Robinson's clearly stated preference for this set up; and > apparently even into the middle and later 17th century some players > persisted with doubled 1st (Mace?) while the majority had already > gone over to the single 2nd as well as 1st. Of course, all of this > well past the time of the Renaissance ideal of polyphony. > >Dan > >On 8/22/2013 11:55 PM, Franz Mechsner wrote: >> Dear Bruno, >> >> I own a guitar made by Mario Gropp and a vihuela by Alexander Batov and >> am very happy with both instruments. I also had a Liuto Forte for >> several years, which I unfortunately had to sell for financial reasons. >> I miss that beautiful instrument a lot. >> >> First of all, it is a wonderful instrument in its own right, so I >> estimated it highly such as I estimate my guitar and my vihuela. There >> is no need to compare any of these instruments on the cost of the >> others - every of these has something the others have not and the other >> way around, which is trivial of course but has to be told to purists of >> any sort. Recently I've had the privilege to host Andre Burguete who >> invented the instrument. It was pure joy to hear him fill the house >> with his beautiful and tasteful playing, still a wonderful memory. He >> plays with nails but recently developed a playing technique somewhat >> different from Segovia style to serve the possibilities of the Liuto >> Forte best. >> >> So most importantlyl, the instruments of the Liuto Forte family are >> beautifully crafted and sound beautiful. In that respect they can only >> be praised highly. Really highly, to my humble judgment. >> >> If you have to classify the sound of a Liuto Forte on a scale between >> early music lute (or vihuela, if you like) on one end and the guitar on >> the other end, it would certainly be closer to the guitar than to the >> early music lute or vihuela, while you can shift the position closer to >> early music instruments when you play the Liuto Forte without nails. >> But to leave it with that one-dimensional judgment of sound >> characteristics would not really do justice to the instrument. >> >> It has to be said that the Liuto Forte has an astonishing range and >> variability of sound characteristics which can neither be covered by a >> modern guitar nor by a lute. When played with nails, the strings feel >> somewhat softer than guitar strings and can be played with less force. >> This is no wonder as string tension is lower than on a guitar. Overall, >> to my impression a Liuto Forte sounds more transparent, which serves >> polyphony. This is particularly so in the bass range where a guitar >> often (or probably usually) sounds somewhat "thick" and "too strong" >> while a Liuto Forte has more clarity here as well as a better balance >> between bass and treble in my judgment. Not to forget the possibilities >> that open up with the enlarged bass range and the variability made >> possible by the family of instruments. >> >> One may well say, the lute family is all one needs and be happy with >> this. I have nothing to say against such a stance except that this is >> only spoken from a certain taste and viewpoint which is open to >> discussion to say the least. I myself do much welcome a new family of >> instruments which mirrors the world of lutes in a way the violin family >> mirrors the viol family. I feel quite strange seeing them dismissed in >> a sentence, called them "fake lutes" etc. Couldn't one call, with equal >> right, a modern violin a "fake viol", or a modern guitar a "fake >> guitar" as it is not a Renaissance or Baroque guitar, or a Bach concert >> played by a modern orchestra a "fake concert". There are certainly >> people who do so... I see no reason why I shouldn't love all of these >> instruments and ways of playing music (if well done of course...). As >> said, there's nothing to say against different tastes and viewpoints >> here, but much to say against dogmatic and dismissing viewpoints. (By >> the way, the Liuto Forte team was, awarded the European Innovation >> Award for Musical Instruments in 1999 given by Robert Schuman >> Foundation and the Europaeische Kulturstiftung. So it seems I'm not the >> only one with my high esteem.) >> >> The Liuto Forte sounds well also without nails. Thus you can play >> romantic music without nails to an astonishing effect. It sounds quite >> intimate and soft. I never played a parlor guitar thus I cannot compare >> but I loved the possibility to use the Liuto Forte in this way which is >> not possible with the modern guitar. You can also play lute music >> without nails which produces - in my view - a sound which quite >> deviates from normal guitar sound and may give more justice to, say, >> Renaissance lute music as a guitar would. I played some English >> Renaissance music without nails in a room filled with about 200 not >> always silent people sitting around tables, on the occasion of a >> Christmas celebration. It worked really well. >> >> Professional guitarists seem to like, in addition, that Liuto Fortes >> can be well heard in ensembles. >> >> In sum I would say: if you like the sound a Liuto Forte you can enjoyed >> that beautiful instrument its own right and also play it in concert >> simply because you like it. Depending on what your equipment and needs >> are, there might be opportunities where you might prefer playing a >> Liuto Forte not only for subjective taste reasons but also for >> practical reasons. >> >> Please take this as the opinion and experience of a non-expert who >> loves music and simply likes the Liuto Forte regarding sound and >> possibilities as well as regarding design. >> >> Best >> Franz >> ----------------------- >> Dr. Franz Mechsner >> Zum Kirschberg 40 >> D-14806 Belzig OT Borne >> franz.mechs...@gmx.de >> +49(0)33841-441362 >> > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
