I understand that, Bill: It's hard to keep a stable of correct
instruments for any given time and it's also up to the player to
choose his sound and presentation. Furthermore, who am I to judge?
But there is this underlying drumbeat of "future instrument creep"
that I find confusing. It's rare to see an earlier instrument used
anachronistically but becoming quite standard to use a later one or
even create and use new modern hybrids. Granted that's what every
lutenist from Poulton to Bream did and I don't want to debate their
musicality or choice, especially our sacred pioneers. It seems there
will always be the modern element that we can't or won't eleminate --
even given the choice.
I suppose that to re-enact today's concerts, future audiences will
need to hold up some sort of early 21th century smartphones to make
the ambience complete. "Oh, a group of 10 with antique iPhones? Let's
put you all in the first two rows!"
Sean
On Aug 23, 2013, at 12:10 PM, William Samson wrote:
I suspect that most of us play on instruments that are 'fake' in one
way or another - be it the strings, or the use of single strings when
evidence suggest that double stringing was more common at the time.
Then again the techniques we use are often at odds with the evidence.
This is often done deliberately to provide an instrument that
produces
the kind of sound the musician wants, or to make it easier to tune or
play with an already established technique.
Bream became the world's most best-known lutenist on a lute that was
certainly quite different from surviving instruments - probably
because
it suited the technique he had developed over many years as a
guitarist.
I think each of us will follow the path that suits us best, even
though
the resulting population of instruments and techniques is not
necessarily typical of the ones that were used back in the day.
Let (s)he who is without sin . . . etc
Bill
From: Franz Mechsner <franz.mechs...@gmx.de>
To: Bruno Correia <bruno.l...@gmail.com>
Cc: lute <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Friday, 23 August 2013, 7:55
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
Dear Bruno,
I own a guitar made by Mario Gropp and a vihuela by Alexander Batov
and
am very happy with both instruments. I also had a Liuto Forte for
several years, which I unfortunately had to sell for financial
reasons.
I miss that beautiful instrument a lot.
First of all, it is a wonderful instrument in its own right, so I
estimated it highly such as I estimate my guitar and my vihuela.
There
is no need to compare any of these instruments on the cost of the
others - every of these has something the others have not and the
other
way around, which is trivial of course but has to be told to
purists
of
any sort. Recently I've had the privilege to host Andre Burguete
who
invented the instrument. It was pure joy to hear him fill the house
with his beautiful and tasteful playing, still a wonderful
memory. He
plays with nails but recently developed a playing technique
somewhat
different from Segovia style to serve the possibilities of the
Liuto
Forte best.
So most importantlyl, the instruments of the Liuto Forte family are
beautifully crafted and sound beautiful. In that respect they can
only
be praised highly. Really highly, to my humble judgment.
If you have to classify the sound of a Liuto Forte on a scale
between
early music lute (or vihuela, if you like) on one end and the
guitar
on
the other end, it would certainly be closer to the guitar than to
the
early music lute or vihuela, while you can shift the position
closer
to
early music instruments when you play the Liuto Forte without
nails.
But to leave it with that one-dimensional judgment of sound
characteristics would not really do justice to the instrument.
It has to be said that the Liuto Forte has an astonishing range and
variability of sound characteristics which can neither be covered
by
a
modern guitar nor by a lute. When played with nails, the strings
feel
somewhat softer than guitar strings and can be played with less
force.
This is no wonder as string tension is lower than on a guitar.
Overall,
to my impression a Liuto Forte sounds more transparent, which
serves
polyphony. This is particularly so in the bass range where a guitar
often (or probably usually) sounds somewhat "thick" and "too
strong"
while a Liuto Forte has more clarity here as well as a better
balance
between bass and treble in my judgment. Not to forget the
possibilities
that open up with the enlarged bass range and the variability made
possible by the family of instruments.
One may well say, the lute family is all one needs and be happy
with
this. I have nothing to say against such a stance except that
this is
only spoken from a certain taste and viewpoint which is open to
discussion to say the least. I myself do much welcome a new
family of
instruments which mirrors the world of lutes in a way the violin
family
mirrors the viol family. I feel quite strange seeing them dismissed
in
a sentence, called them "fake lutes" etc. Couldn't one call, with
equal
right, a modern violin a "fake viol", or a modern guitar a "fake
guitar" as it is not a Renaissance or Baroque guitar, or a Bach
concert
played by a modern orchestra a "fake concert". There are certainly
people who do so... I see no reason why I shouldn't love all of
these
instruments and ways of playing music (if well done of
course...). As
said, there's nothing to say against different tastes and
viewpoints
here, but much to say against dogmatic and dismissing viewpoints.
(By
the way, the Liuto Forte team was, awarded the European Innovation
Award for Musical Instruments in 1999 given by Robert Schuman
Foundation and the Europaeische Kulturstiftung. So it seems I'm not
the
only one with my high esteem.)
The Liuto Forte sounds well also without nails. Thus you can play
romantic music without nails to an astonishing effect. It sounds
quite
intimate and soft. I never played a parlor guitar thus I cannot
compare
but I loved the possibility to use the Liuto Forte in this way
which
is
not possible with the modern guitar. You can also play lute music
without nails which produces - in my view - a sound which quite
deviates from normal guitar sound and may give more justice to,
say,
Renaissance lute music as a guitar would. I played some English
Renaissance music without nails in a room filled with about 200 not
always silent people sitting around tables, on the occasion of a
Christmas celebration. It worked really well.
Professional guitarists seem to like, in addition, that Liuto
Fortes
can be well heard in ensembles.
In sum I would say: if you like the sound a Liuto Forte you can
enjoyed
that beautiful instrument its own right and also play it in concert
simply because you like it. Depending on what your equipment and
needs
are, there might be opportunities where you might prefer playing a
Liuto Forte not only for subjective taste reasons but also for
practical reasons.
Please take this as the opinion and experience of a non-expert who
loves music and simply likes the Liuto Forte regarding sound and
possibilities as well as regarding design.
Best
Franz
-----------------------
Dr. Franz Mechsner
Zum Kirschberg 40
D-14806 Belzig OT Borne
[1]franz.mechs...@gmx.de
+49(0)33841-441362
Gesendet: Freitag, 23. August 2013 um 03:43 Uhr
Von: "Bruno Correia"
An: lute
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
But, do they sound lute like? The samples feature guitarrists
playing
with nails and single strings...
2013/8/22 [1][2]r.turov...@gmail.com <[2][3]r.turov...@gmail.com>
There are rather poorly designed from the standpoint of visual
aesthetics. maybe with the exception of theorbo forte.
The swan neck forte is a particularly funny looking contraption.
RT
On 8/22/2013 6:30 PM, John Lenti wrote:
Don't own one but have borrowed and gigged on. Funny sound, like a
Steinway classical guitar, but really responsive and loud. I think
there is a place for them in this world.
Sent from my Ouija board
On Aug 22, 2013, at 6:05 PM, "David Tayler"
<[3][4]vidan...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
If they called it a fake lute, it would not sell as well.
__________________________________________________________________
From: Bruno Correia <[4][5]bruno.l...@gmail.com>
To: List LUTELIST <[5][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 1:41 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Liuto forte
Would anybody be willing to share his own experience with liuto
forte
instruments?
--
Bruno Figueiredo
Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao
historicamente informada no alaude e teorba.
Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela
Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
[1][6][1][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. [7][2][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
Bruno Figueiredo
Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao
historicamente informada no alaude e teorba.
Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela
Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.
--
References
1. mailto:[9]r.turov...@gmail.com
2. mailto:[10]r.turov...@gmail.com
3. mailto:[11]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
4. mailto:[12]bruno.l...@gmail.com
5. mailto:[13]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. [3][14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
7. [4][15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
References
1. [16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
2. [17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
3. [18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
4. [19]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de
2. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
3. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
4. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net
5. mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com
6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
9. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
10. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
11. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net
12. mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com
13. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
18. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
19. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
