1643 precisely Jean-Michel, with "Anthoyne Boesset" XVIe Livre d'Airs de cour avec la tablature de luth...
Cheers, Jean-Marie -------------- > in fact, the chansons de Chancy are for voices alone. So my firts > "mistake" was not a mistake....1640 > Le Mercredi 29 janvier 2014 14h18, jean-michel Catherinot > <jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com> a ecrit : > and I've forgot the one of 1655 (I've never seen it, but I suppose > it's > in vieil ton). But no solos till ca 1640. > Le Mercredi 29 janvier 2014 13h02, jean-michel Catherinot > <[1]jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com> a ecrit : > " don't know any tablature evidence of the use of vieil ton after > ca1640: indeed you have to read 1650" (I think the last one is > FranAS:ois de Chancy airs de cour-1649) > Le Mercredi 29 janvier 2014 11h14, jean-michel Catherinot > <[1][2]jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com> a A(c)crit : > Yes: Zamboni in tablature., but indeed you know that!. I consider > that > most of the arciliuto music is written in staff notation, may be > this > is a particularity of the instrument, and there is no doubt that > tuning > is not re-entrant (just have a look to Hasse's Cleofide, for > arciliuto > and compare with obligato parts for tiorba in Conti's Davide: > ambitus > and tessiture). . In staff notation, you mat consult, as I said, > obligato parts in Hasse's and Haendel's operas (and many others > it > seems, I'm trying to list them), and the "concerti" from Harrach > collection. It is not impossible that Zamboni was the composer of > the > solo sonata for arciliuto and the two aconcertinos' for arciliuto > with > two violins and organ (all anonymous and in staff notation) from > the > Harrach library formerly owned by Robert Spencer and now at the > Royal > Academy of Music, London; another similar anonymous concerto for > arciliuto is among the newly-discovered items of chamber music at > Rohrau. > Concerning Mersenne, it is quite clear in french that while > renaming > the picture untitled "tuorbe" in "archiluth", he corrects a mistake > he > has previously done (and he says explicitly that): and he gives > quite > clearly the tuning for thA(c)orbe (re-entrant, in A) and the two > tunings for archiluth in G and A. > Concerning the use of archiluth in France (this is not our subject, > but...): at first 2 points, I don't know any tablature evidence of > the > use of vieil ton after ca1640. If this type of lute would be used, > it's > very strange that there is no written music for it (not a note). > The > only strange book of Delair gives the impression that the tuning > could > be not re-entrant: but it's a quite basic book, which only gives > solution for chords, not to play a B.C., and also dedicated to the > harpsichord (did Delair even play the theorbo?). The others > (Grenerin, > Fleury,...) work with re-entrant tuning, even if the solutions > could > be > strange for us (but what about the guitar?). > I think the discontinuity you quote about the lines, with wide > laps, > is > inherent to the theorbo. In very clear solo theorbo pieces, with no > doubt on tuning as Saizenay, you find those strange laps, even in > de > VisA(c)e. It is also very common in guitar pieces, (have a look to > Monica Hall's site). And even changing the tuning doesn't solve > the > problem: you allways find those dicontinuities. This begins with > Piccinini from place to place, but the campanella parts prove that > his > tuning was completely re-entrant. > Le Mardi 28 janvier 2014 18h26, R. Mattes <[2][3]r...@mh-freiburg.de> > a > A(c)crit : > On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 17:10:18 +0000 (GMT), Martyn Hodgson wrote > > > > > > I'm sorry you find Bob Spencer's paper so very poor. > No need to be sorry, esp. since I don't find Spencer's paper "very > poor" > (where did I write > that?). I only tied to say that it a) shows it's age b) seems to be > an > "overview"-type of > publication and hence tends to over-generalize c) seems to often > prove > my > points more than yours. > > My point about the tablatures (rather than staff notation) is > that > > it is with these that we find an unequivocal indication of the > > tuning required for a particular named instrument. > And my point is that a lot of the tablatures I kow of and played > are much less unequivocal in indicating the required tuning - just > as an example there seem to be some rather equivocal places in the > Pittoni on my music stand ... > > I'm not aware of > > any tablature sources which require, for example, a re-entrant > > tuning for an archlute (or various cognates). Do you? > No, but there are hardly any archlute tablatures from the Corelli > time I know of. Please provide some - I'm really interested in this > topic. > And of course there is the case of "inverse" reentrantness (read: > excessive use of octave stringing) in the recently mentioned > Basso Continuo/Partimento manuscipt from Rome. > Cheers, Ralf Mattes > To get on or off this list see list information at > [1][3][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- > References > 1. [4][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- > References > 1. mailto:[6]jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com > 2. mailto:[7]r...@mh-freiburg.de > 3. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 4. [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > >References > > 1. mailto:jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com > 2. mailto:jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com > 3. mailto:r...@mh-freiburg.de > 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 6. mailto:jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com > 7. mailto:r...@mh-freiburg.de > 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
