Thank you, very interesting observation.
> On Jan 17, 2015, at 8:47 AM, Martin Shepherd <mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote: > > Dear Charles, > I have given some examples before, which will be in the archives > somewhere (I can't find them at the moment) but have a look at the > Galliard to the Pavan "Sans per" by Francis Cutting (Dd.2.11, f.73v.), > last three bars (the same passage occurs in bars 8-9): > _____c___c_a_____________________________ > _a___________|_a___________|_a__________| > _a___f___e___|_a___________|_a__________| > ___c_________|_____________|____________| > _____e_c_e___|_g_____h_g_e_|_g__________| > _e___c_______|_h___h_______|_________h__| > a a a > I think this passage only works if you have an octave on the 5th > course. > There are many other examples, of course. Also worth noting that > Cutting may have been the editor of Barley's collection. > Best wishes, > Martin > > On 16/01/2015 13:10, Charles Mokotoff wrote: > > Greetings List, > Martin, this quote from you: > "In fact there are many passages in John Johnson, Francis Cutting, > Anthony Holborne and even Dowland where octaves even up to the 4th > course seem to be implied..." > I was just wondering how octave stringing is implied by these > composers? I have always wondered about this, so am very curious how > you reached that conclusion. > Thank you! > Charles > > On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 5:55 AM, Martin Shepherd > <[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote: > > Dear Robert, > This is an interesting question. Off the top of my head: > I don't think Spinacino (1507) mentions octaves in his introductory > material, but there are some classic examples of octaves in his > intabulations, especially in the opening of "Haray tre amours" (Book > 2, f.15v.) where the opening flourish finishes, not on the open 2nd > course, but on the second fret of the 5th course. > Attaingnant's tuning instructions (1529) tell us to use octaves on > 4-6. His arrangements of chansons for voice and lute also suggest > pretty unambiguously an octave on the 4th course (e.g. cadences > which go from c4a5 to d3a4). > Not sure whether Hans Newsidler's instructions (1536) talk about it, > but the woodcut of a lute showing the symbols of German tablature > clearly shows octaves on 4-6. There is also evidence of octaves in > his intabulations. > Adrian le Roy's Instructions (English translation, 1574), in > discussing the intabulation of "De corps absent" on f.42(?) mentions > using the octave on the 5th course to solve a problem in the > intabulation, and in passing mentions that this ruse would not be > possible with a lute strung in the manner of Fabritio Dentice and > his followers (which is where we get the idea that Dentice was a > leading proponent of unison stringing). I had a feeling that > somewhere Le Roy tells us to use octaves on 4-6, but I can't find it > at the moment. > I have a feeling that Waissel's instructions (1592 book?) use > octaves but I don't have the facsimile - can anyone help? > Barley (1596) prints a version of Le Roy's instructions and also has > a woodcut of a lute which seems to show octaves on 4-6. Can't > immediately find my copy of that either. > When Dowland is talking about octaves in 1610, he recommends using a > unison 6th course, and says that the practice of using an octave (on > the 6th course) was used "nowhere so much as here in England". In > fact there are many passages in John Johnson, Francis Cutting, > Anthony Holborne and even Dowland where octaves even up to the 4th > course seem to be implied, so it seems that use of octaves persisted > longer in England than elsewhere and may even have been common in > the 1590s. > I hope others can add to this list and confirm (or otherwise) some > of my references. > Best wishes, > Martin > > On 16/01/2015 09:10, Robert Barto wrote: > > Hello lute friends, > How many sources do we have in all of Europe from @1500-1600 > that tell > exactly how the lute was tuned concerning the octaves on the 4,5 > and > 6th courses? > Thanks, > Robert > > __________________________________________________________________ > [1][avast-mail-stamp.png] > Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren > geprueft. > [2][2]www.avast.com > -- > References > 1. [3]http://www.avast.com/ > 2. [4]http://www.avast.com/ > To get on or off this list see list information at > [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > [6]http://www.avast.com > __________________________________________________________________ > > [7][avast-mail-stamp.png] > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > [8]www.avast.com > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk > 2. http://www.avast.com/ > 3. http://www.avast.com/ > 4. http://www.avast.com/ > 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html > 6. http://www.avast.com/ > 7. http://www.avast.com/ > 8. http://www.avast.com/ >
