I don't know if this supports the thumb-over idea - in Germanic countries or otherwise - but my old Vandervogl lute/guitar had an exceptionally slender neck which naturally facilitated the wrap-around thumb. It was more parabolic, too, iirc. There wasn't any place to put my left thumb except pretty close to the bass string. No classical guitar teacher wanted to teach my teenage self until I found a real c. guitar.
Sean On Oct 1, 2015, at 2:50 PM, jelmaa wrote: I think the terms 'common' and 'replete' are very exaggerated for 19th century guitar repertoire. The LH thumb is used occasionally, but almost only in Viennese/Austrian solo repertoire, not in French or Spanish music. For it to work you need a guitar with a very thin neck, and it still messes up your left hand technique (in my experience, playing on original 19th C French & Viennese guitars). Jelma van Amersfoort On Oct 1, 2015, at 22:43 , G. C. wrote: > Hey Chris, that's really interesting. So the 19th century repertoire is > replete with this technique? I'm surprized and feel there is much to > this matter, which hasn't been thoroughly analyzed yet. :) G. > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Christopher Wilke > <[1]chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: > > The technique was common in 19th century guitar playing, where it > was > often marked with a "^". It does have some advantages and there > are > spots where it facilitates fewer chord shape changes. In that > repertoire, I haven't encountered any pieces that I absolutely > couldn't > finger without the thumb over the neck. (I did, however, perform > one > contemporary piece in which the only way I could figure out how > to get > a particular combination of notes was to use the left hand thumb. > This > was not due to cleverness on the composer's part, but rather > because he > wasn't a guitarist at all.) > I suspect that some lute players did this and some avoided it. > There > might be the odd piece that absolutely requires it. There also > might be > some performance practice insights one could gain from > experimenting > with it, but due to the risk of wrist injury, I'd be hesitant to > make a > regular practice of using it all the time. Even in the 19th > century, it > wasn't universal. Sor, for one, disapproved of it. > Chris > [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > On Oct 1, 2015, 12:01:01 PM, G. C. wrote: > One obscure feature of plucking which has always fascinated but > eluded > me is the technique of using also the thumb to play on the lower > strings. Supposedly mainly feasible on 6 course instruments and a > narrow neck, it has apparently been in vogue and an open "secret" > for > the initiated since the days of Francesco at least (see famous > painting > by Giulio Campi on the cover of Doug's History of the Lute if it > indeed > depicts such a practice). I know that it is very common in Rock, > (where > its so widespread, that it has to be meaningful somehow). To me, > (classically trained), it looks bizarre, and more like someone > has > learned to play the wrong way. But it has to have at least some > advantages, as it seems to be so popular (at least among the rock > music > pluckers). Not only for barrA", particularly chords where the > index > presses on a fret in front of the fret that the thumb is stopping > look > bewildering. Might there be an ergonomic/finger mechanical > reason? > (Concert playing for hours so thereby avoiding carpal tunnel > syndrome?) > Is there someone here who could explain the inner workings and/or > advantages of this technique in a simple way or point to a > website, are > there any uses for it in lute-playing (skewed barrA"?), and does > the > practice have a consensus name? > Best regards > G > -- > To get on or off this list see list information at > [2][2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > References > 1. [3]https://yho.com/footer0 > 2. [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu > 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 3. https://yho.com/footer0 > 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
