There is a viola d'amore with sympathetic strings that run from the tail piece, below the bridge, below the fingerboard, and up to the peg box that has an appropriate number of additional pegs. There's also a baryton (a bit smaller than a cello) with several harp strings that run from the tailpiece to a large peg box. They're plucked with the thumb of the left hand. Finally, there's the Hardanger fiddle with sympathetic strings mounted in a manner similar to those of the viola d'amore. Steve
On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 02:25:34 PM EDT, Nancy Carlin <lsaq.edi...@gmail.com> wrote: Isn't there a viola da gamba type instrument that in arranged similarly? Nancy > Not at all sure myself, and I don't know chapter and verse with Mersenne, as Bailes didn't quote them. In my imagination, though, it's a double soundboard with metal strings for the inside and gut strings for the outside (I have no idea how they would keep the inside metal strings in tune). The metal strings probably were intended to resonate with the outside gut strings. Bailes quoted it in a row of examples of contemporaneous French experiments with sound. > > Mathias > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: [1]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von G. C. > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. März 2020 23:36 > An: Lutelist > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Double Top > > How in the world would such a lute look like? And how would you be able > to tune the second set? Maybe he meant something like the Mace double > lute? (Dipharion?) > > On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:05 PM Mathias RÃÃà ¶sel > <[1][3]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> wrote: > > Anthony Bailes mentioned Marin Mersenne, Harmonie Universelle > (1636), who speaks about the possibility of building a lute with two > soundboards with strings on both of them, gut strings on one, metal > strings on the other (that's about resonance, I suppose). (Lute News > 85, April 2008) > Mathias > -----UrsprÃÃà ¼ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: [2][4]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu > [mailto:[3][5]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von > David Smith > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. MÃÃà ¤rz 2020 20:16 > An: Joachim LÃÃà ¼dtke; [4][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Double Top > I have heard both sandwiched and double top used. The term double > top is more common in the states. > David > -----Original Message----- > From: [5][7]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu > <[6][8]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of Joachim > LÃÃà ¼dtke > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:56 AM > To: [7][9]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double Top > Dear David, dear list, > I was a bit puzzled at first because I know the term double top, but > only pointing to instruments like e.g. Marcard guitars with a > second, 'interior' soundboard. What you describe is what I think is > usually called a sandwiched soundboard. Is my terminology too > limited or do I use it too strictly? > A few weeks ago, before the darn Corona guy rode into town, there > were guitar days here in the Hochschule fÃÃà ¼r Kunst und Musik in > Bremen, and there were young builders showing their recently > finished guitars, and one of the guitar teachers of the Hochschule > playing a few measures on each of them. Most sounded excellent, and > I am ashamed to say that I couldn't make much difference between the > majority of the sounds, neither did I ask for prices à ¢à ¦ > Best from the Hanseatics > Joachim > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Double Top > Datum: 2020-03-25T17:44:36+0100 > Von: "David Smith" <[8][10]d...@dolcesfogato.com> > An: "Tristan von Neumann" <[9][11]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>, > "[10][12]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[11][13]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > That cost is what a master builder charges for classical guitars - > 10k-20k is pretty normal. The cost of doing a double top is really > not that high. The materials are not expensive and vacuum is used > for a lot of other things in the shop. I use it for attaching > bridges and holding instruments while French polishing. The Dammann > price is based on his reputation and not on it being a double top. > You should be able to find good quality double tops starting around > 3-4k. > As to using it on a lute, you have to like the sound of it because > it is clearly not historical. I, personally, do not like the sound > of double tops that much. They sacrifice character for volume, imho. > But, if you are trying to fill a concert hall without a microphone > then there are already a lot of sacrifices being made and the double > top is just one more. For a more intimate setting I think it is > overkill. The bracing from Trevor Gore (Falcate system - > [12][14]https://goreguitars.com.au/main/page_innovation_summary_falcate _ > bracing.html) is more interesting. It makes for a very even sound > throughout the instrument and provides more volume as well. Would I > use it on a lute. Not likely. > Anyway, some random thoughts. > David > -----Original Message----- > From: [13][15]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu > <[14][16]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of Tristan > von Neumann > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:18 AM > To: [15][17]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double Top > For that money, I'd buy a Lute consort... > I don't see any advantage... > On 25.03.20 11:40, Jurgen Frenz wrote: > > I read about the process to make such an instrument - from memory > the two slices are glued together under vacuum, to me it sounds like > quite a costly process. The guitars made by the inventor of this > technology Matthias Dammann cost 15 000 à ¢à ¬ a pop. > > > > JÃÃà ¼rgne > > > > > > > > > > à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢ Original Message à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢ > > On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:04 AM, Mark Probert > <[16][18]probe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> John wrote: > >> > >>> Question is, has this been tried on a lute? Are there any > luthiers > >>> interested in trying? > >> Interesting technology. As applied to a lute? Not so sure. > >> I suspect someone will but most won't as there is not really any > >> advantage and much disadvantage (the lamination process for > starters, > >> workin with nomex or similar, etc.). > >> > >> The problem this construction "fixes" is loudness. While there > may be > >> occassions when a lute is too soft, making up for it with an > overly > >> stiff soundboard would, I suspect, take away much of what makes a > >> lute sound the way it does. > >> > >> Consider the following article for more > >> > >> [17][19]https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=1467 > >> > >> Kind regards > >> > >> .. mark. > >> > >> To get on or off this list see list information at > >> [18][20]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > > à ¯à »à ¿ > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:[21]mathias.roe...@t-online.de > 2. mailto:[22]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu > 3. mailto:[23]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu > 4. mailto:[24]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 5. mailto:[25]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu > 6. mailto:[26]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu > 7. mailto:[27]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 8. mailto:[28]d...@dolcesfogato.com > 9. mailto:[29]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de > 10. mailto:[30]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 11. mailto:[31]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 12. [32]https://goreguitars.com.au/main/page_innovation_summary_falcate_bra cing.html > 13. mailto:[33]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu > 14. mailto:[34]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu > 15. mailto:[35]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 16. mailto:[36]probe...@gmail.com > 17. [37]https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=1467 > 18. [38]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > -- Nancy Carlin Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA [39]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org PO Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA 925 / 686-5800 www.groundsanddivisions.info www.nancycarlinassociates.com -- References 1. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 2. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de 4. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 8. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 9. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 10. mailto:d...@dolcesfogato.com 11. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 12. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 13. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 14. https://goreguitars.com.au/main/page_innovation_summary_falcate_ 15. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 16. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 17. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 18. mailto:probe...@gmail.com 19. https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=1467 20. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 21. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de 22. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 23. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 24. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 25. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 26. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 27. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 28. mailto:d...@dolcesfogato.com 29. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 30. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 31. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 32. https://goreguitars.com.au/main/page_innovation_summary_falcate_bracing.html 33. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 34. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 35. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 36. mailto:probe...@gmail.com 37. https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=1467 38. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 39. http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org/
