Isn't there a viola da gamba type instrument that in arranged similarly?
Nancy
Not at all sure myself, and I don't know chapter and verse with Mersenne, as
Bailes didn't quote them. In my imagination, though, it's a double soundboard
with metal strings for the inside and gut strings for the outside (I have no
idea how they would keep the inside metal strings in tune). The metal strings
probably were intended to resonate with the outside gut strings. Bailes quoted
it in a row of examples of contemporaneous French experiments with sound.
Mathias
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von G. C.
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. März 2020 23:36
An: Lutelist
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Double Top
How in the world would such a lute look like? And how would you be able
to tune the second set? Maybe he meant something like the Mace double
lute? (Dipharion?)
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:05 PM Mathias Rösel
<[1]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> wrote:
Anthony Bailes mentioned Marin Mersenne, Harmonie Universelle
(1636), who speaks about the possibility of building a lute with two
soundboards with strings on both of them, gut strings on one, metal
strings on the other (that's about resonance, I suppose). (Lute News
85, April 2008)
Mathias
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von
David Smith
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. März 2020 20:16
An: Joachim Lüdtke; [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Double Top
I have heard both sandwiched and double top used. The term double
top is more common in the states.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: [5]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
<[6]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of Joachim
Lüdtke
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:56 AM
To: [7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double Top
Dear David, dear list,
I was a bit puzzled at first because I know the term double top, but
only pointing to instruments like e.g. Marcard guitars with a
second, 'interior' soundboard. What you describe is what I think is
usually called a sandwiched soundboard. Is my terminology too
limited or do I use it too strictly?
A few weeks ago, before the darn Corona guy rode into town, there
were guitar days here in the Hochschule für Kunst und Musik in
Bremen, and there were young builders showing their recently
finished guitars, and one of the guitar teachers of the Hochschule
playing a few measures on each of them. Most sounded excellent, and
I am ashamed to say that I couldn't make much difference between the
majority of the sounds, neither did I ask for prices â¦
Best from the Hanseatics
Joachim
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Double Top
Datum: 2020-03-25T17:44:36+0100
Von: "David Smith" <[8]d...@dolcesfogato.com>
An: "Tristan von Neumann" <[9]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>,
"[10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[11]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
That cost is what a master builder charges for classical guitars -
10k-20k is pretty normal. The cost of doing a double top is really
not that high. The materials are not expensive and vacuum is used
for a lot of other things in the shop. I use it for attaching
bridges and holding instruments while French polishing. The Dammann
price is based on his reputation and not on it being a double top.
You should be able to find good quality double tops starting around
3-4k.
As to using it on a lute, you have to like the sound of it because
it is clearly not historical. I, personally, do not like the sound
of double tops that much. They sacrifice character for volume, imho.
But, if you are trying to fill a concert hall without a microphone
then there are already a lot of sacrifices being made and the double
top is just one more. For a more intimate setting I think it is
overkill. The bracing from Trevor Gore (Falcate system -
[12]https://goreguitars.com.au/main/page_innovation_summary_falcate_
bracing.html) is more interesting. It makes for a very even sound
throughout the instrument and provides more volume as well. Would I
use it on a lute. Not likely.
Anyway, some random thoughts.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: [13]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
<[14]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of Tristan
von Neumann
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:18 AM
To: [15]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double Top
For that money, I'd buy a Lute consort...
I don't see any advantage...
On 25.03.20 11:40, Jurgen Frenz wrote:
> I read about the process to make such an instrument - from memory
the two slices are glued together under vacuum, to me it sounds like
quite a costly process. The guitars made by the inventor of this
technology Matthias Dammann cost 15 000 ⬠a pop.
>
> Jürgne
>
>
>
>
> âââââââ Original Message âââââââ
> On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:04 AM, Mark Probert
<[16]probe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> John wrote:
>>
>>> Question is, has this been tried on a lute? Are there any
luthiers
>>> interested in trying?
>> Interesting technology. As applied to a lute? Not so sure.
>> I suspect someone will but most won't as there is not really any
>> advantage and much disadvantage (the lamination process for
starters,
>> workin with nomex or similar, etc.).
>>
>> The problem this construction "fixes" is loudness. While there
may be
>> occassions when a lute is too soft, making up for it with an
overly
>> stiff soundboard would, I suspect, take away much of what makes a
>> lute sound the way it does.
>>
>> Consider the following article for more
>>
>> [17]https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=1467
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> .. mark.
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>

--
References
1. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de
2. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
3. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
5. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
6. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
7. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
8. mailto:d...@dolcesfogato.com
9. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
10. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
11. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
12.
https://goreguitars.com.au/main/page_innovation_summary_falcate_bracing.html
13. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
14. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
15. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
16. mailto:probe...@gmail.com
17. https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=1467
18. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
Nancy Carlin
Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA
http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org
PO Box 6499
Concord, CA 94524
USA
925 / 686-5800
www.groundsanddivisions.info
www.nancycarlinassociates.com
