Not at all sure myself, and I don't know chapter and verse with Mersenne, as Bailes didn't quote them. In my imagination, though, it's a double soundboard with metal strings for the inside and gut strings for the outside (I have no idea how they would keep the inside metal strings in tune). The metal strings probably were intended to resonate with the outside gut strings. Bailes quoted it in a row of examples of contemporaneous French experiments with sound.
Mathias -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von G. C. Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. März 2020 23:36 An: Lutelist Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Double Top How in the world would such a lute look like? And how would you be able to tune the second set? Maybe he meant something like the Mace double lute? (Dipharion?) On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:05 PM Mathias Rösel <[1]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> wrote: Anthony Bailes mentioned Marin Mersenne, Harmonie Universelle (1636), who speaks about the possibility of building a lute with two soundboards with strings on both of them, gut strings on one, metal strings on the other (that's about resonance, I suppose). (Lute News 85, April 2008) Mathias -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von David Smith Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. März 2020 20:16 An: Joachim Lüdtke; [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Double Top I have heard both sandwiched and double top used. The term double top is more common in the states. David -----Original Message----- From: [5]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu <[6]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of Joachim Lüdtke Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:56 AM To: [7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double Top Dear David, dear list, I was a bit puzzled at first because I know the term double top, but only pointing to instruments like e.g. Marcard guitars with a second, 'interior' soundboard. What you describe is what I think is usually called a sandwiched soundboard. Is my terminology too limited or do I use it too strictly? A few weeks ago, before the darn Corona guy rode into town, there were guitar days here in the Hochschule für Kunst und Musik in Bremen, and there were young builders showing their recently finished guitars, and one of the guitar teachers of the Hochschule playing a few measures on each of them. Most sounded excellent, and I am ashamed to say that I couldn't make much difference between the majority of the sounds, neither did I ask for prices ⦠Best from the Hanseatics Joachim -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Double Top Datum: 2020-03-25T17:44:36+0100 Von: "David Smith" <[8]d...@dolcesfogato.com> An: "Tristan von Neumann" <[9]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>, "[10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[11]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> That cost is what a master builder charges for classical guitars - 10k-20k is pretty normal. The cost of doing a double top is really not that high. The materials are not expensive and vacuum is used for a lot of other things in the shop. I use it for attaching bridges and holding instruments while French polishing. The Dammann price is based on his reputation and not on it being a double top. You should be able to find good quality double tops starting around 3-4k. As to using it on a lute, you have to like the sound of it because it is clearly not historical. I, personally, do not like the sound of double tops that much. They sacrifice character for volume, imho. But, if you are trying to fill a concert hall without a microphone then there are already a lot of sacrifices being made and the double top is just one more. For a more intimate setting I think it is overkill. The bracing from Trevor Gore (Falcate system - [12]https://goreguitars.com.au/main/page_innovation_summary_falcate_ bracing.html) is more interesting. It makes for a very even sound throughout the instrument and provides more volume as well. Would I use it on a lute. Not likely. Anyway, some random thoughts. David -----Original Message----- From: [13]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu <[14]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of Tristan von Neumann Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:18 AM To: [15]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double Top For that money, I'd buy a Lute consort... I don't see any advantage... On 25.03.20 11:40, Jurgen Frenz wrote: > I read about the process to make such an instrument - from memory the two slices are glued together under vacuum, to me it sounds like quite a costly process. The guitars made by the inventor of this technology Matthias Dammann cost 15 000 ⬠a pop. > > Jürgne > > > > > âââââââ Original Message âââââââ > On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:04 AM, Mark Probert <[16]probe...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> John wrote: >> >>> Question is, has this been tried on a lute? Are there any luthiers >>> interested in trying? >> Interesting technology. As applied to a lute? Not so sure. >> I suspect someone will but most won't as there is not really any >> advantage and much disadvantage (the lamination process for starters, >> workin with nomex or similar, etc.). >> >> The problem this construction "fixes" is loudness. While there may be >> occassions when a lute is too soft, making up for it with an overly >> stiff soundboard would, I suspect, take away much of what makes a >> lute sound the way it does. >> >> Consider the following article for more >> >> [17]https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=1467 >> >> Kind regards >> >> .. mark. >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> [18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >  -- References 1. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de 2. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 6. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 7. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. mailto:d...@dolcesfogato.com 9. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 10. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 11. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 12. https://goreguitars.com.au/main/page_innovation_summary_falcate_bracing.html 13. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 14. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu 15. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 16. mailto:probe...@gmail.com 17. https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=1467 18. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
