On Thu, 27 Jul 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> #1: Again, LyX is WYSIWYM - What You See Is What You Mean - not WYSIWYG.
> LyX gives you visual clues as to what the document will look like, not
> actually laying it out that way.
I think the developers have faced this question before and the answer is
always something like: LyX will never be WYSIWYG
>
> --
> Mike Ressler
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> OK, I'm lame: I don't have my own website ...
I'll lend you one of mine!
> On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Bodvar Bjorgvinsson wrote:
>
> > Dear all of you fine people, who are doing such a good job and working so
> > hard at the LyX project,
Thanks.
> > What I have been looking for is a Linux replacement for Adobe PageMaker6.5
> > (which I use a lot) or even QuarkXpress (maybe too much to ask for ;-) ).
These are very hands on tools. LyX and LaTeX are about defining strict
styles and sticking to them. Magazine publishing might have a general
style but there seems to be a lot of adjustment on each page. That
doesn't necessarily mean you can't do everything with LaTeX it's just
going to be a lot of work coding things. Which is where LyX should step
in in your dream-picture. Some of the stuff below could be done I think
but you would still be a long way from a pagemaker or quark express.
> > What I would see in LyX (or Klyx) and cannot see that you got, is:
> >
> > 1) Better WYSIWYG.
No. Better indication of what you are doing perhaps and some of the
following do need that.
> > 2) More scaling of fonts (e.g., above 72 points).
Needs new fonts I think -- TrueType?
> > 3) Slanting of a selection in various degrees (like if you have a 60 pt.
> > text and select a word out of it, or even one letter and slant it some 30
> > degrees back or forth).
\rotate{} and \kern{} are available from LaTeX but not really suitable for
rubberbanding words. PSTricks can do that sort of thing but then we'd
need a PSTricks guru. It probably wouldn't be that hard a feature to add
-- if you limit yourself to something like the WordArt feature Word
has/had (word-2.0 anyway -- gosh I am old ;-). But you won't get much
assistance in placing it where you want unless we find a suitable package
to support it. Both the following probably need the same sorts of thing:
picinpar.sty and its ilk
> > 4) Text boxes and/or text frames that can be linked so that the text flows
> > from one box to another. The boxes need to be able to be set to accurate
> > measure.
> > 5) Object/picture boxes that can be set to accurate measures and where the
> > object can be easily resized, slanted, cropped (read: partly hidden) etc.
The "accurate measures" part is a bit tricky. There are packages that
allow this sort of thing but since we refuse to bow to "word-processor"
features like rulers (they just don't make sense when using LaTeX) they
could be very difficult to support.
> > 6) Maybe some automatic linking to Gimp in order to work with objects.
> > 7) Import of tables from Siag or some other spread sheet application
> > (StarCalc, Quattro), either linked or direct if not both.
External Insets should be able to cover this. We should even be able to
do XDND (X drag'n drop) from them one day. If we find someone with the
time and inclination to implement it (requesting the appropriate format of
selection to be pasted).
> > 8) Color management (create color for filling etc).
I think PSTricks can probably do this sort of thing. Someone needs to
look at the "LaTeX Graphics Companion".
> > 9) Multiple master pages (to create different page formats within the
> > publication).
Sounds like you need a multipart document with (possibly) different
document classes for each part. Or a damn good LaTeX guru to write one
for you.
> > 10) Layers. 3-4 layers would be very handy to work with when you...
Again I think it may be possible to define multiple PSTricks programs(?)
that can be editted and applied separately to the same page. (Stretching
my memory now, I may just be imagining this feature)
11) Better line/box editor (or maybe > there was none at all?)
We should allow putting boxes around things (frameboxes anyway) I'm not
sure how we'd go about sizing it for your needs though.
> > 12) Guides and Rulers (adjustable and > possible to use from Master
Page(s).
You could adjust the margins and column separation etc. on a per page
basis I think but that is getting to be far to hands on. You'd be better
off hiring a couple of LaTeX guru's to write a good document class for you
that incorporated the heuristic knowledge of your editors and layout
staff. LaTeX does a very good of placing stuff found in technical
documents like textbooks or conference papers but for what you need LaTeX
would need to add an extra dimension to the page (ie. the layers you
want) and that's far beyond anything we are likely to try to do anytime in
the next few years.
> > 13) Insert pages at a given > point. (Why should we need the M$Word
approach: > to fill in text and> spaces or use hard brake for a new page?)
Pages like adverts? or with adverts anyway. Or pages like the tails of
articles all smunched together on a page at the back?
> > 14) Possibility to make> (easily) your own styles (style sheets).
This a drawback with LaTeX. Although there are literally thousands of
document classes (style sheets) out there there isn't a graphical tool for
editting or defining them. Or any editor for them other than a
text-editor (okay, there's emacs but you know what I mean).
> > It seems to me that WP8> comes in some ways closer to the above
> requests than > LyX does.
That's partly because "word-processors" started to try to absorb a lot of
the features of DTP but without the extra smarts of DTP. It could be
argued that the LyX+LaTeX combo has the smarts of the DTP (and more) but
doesn't require you to do all the manual labour of pushing objects around
a screen.
> 15) One more thing I would like to see, that PM does not have: ability
> to > open (import or place) a ready made PostScript file for editing
> (either text > or formatting).
Hmmm... we could perhaps import the text using ps2ascii but I don't think
anyone would consider trying to edit a ps file directly. It is a
rendering of the message but doesn't have any of the logical information
from the original message. For example, there is no such thing as a
"section" just big and little fonts with varying shades of colour.
> > Well, isn't this a nice wish-list
> for Christmas? > > I mean no joke. IMHO, the only thing that has
> prevented many people from > using PM instead of M$Word on the M$
> platform is money. PM costs much more > and the Quark is way out in
> price.
There are some who have used PM and didn't pay the price who think they
got their moneys worth. Pushing stuff around a screen is not how I want
to publish documents. Magazines are a different matter though, a
different world with different requirements, and a different idea of what
constitutes good style. I doubt "The Chicago book of style" covers much
on magazine layouts.
> I am sure that if you guys can come up > with, not necessarily
> a free tool, but at least a very moderately priced > one, a lot of
> people would go for it.
I've heard a number of times from friends who should have known better
that LyX was/is going commercial. I can't see it happening real soon.
But it would be nice. Maybe we just need a buyout.
> It seems to me that you are even > working on some of this just now. >
> > In the meanwhile, good luck with your excellent, ongoing job.
> Thanks! > > Bodvar Bjorgvinsson > > Akranes, Iceland > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks,
Allan. (ARRae)
