> -----Original Message----- > From: rgheck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 2:59 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org > Subject: Re: WRB - Installing LyX > > William R. Buckley wrote: > > On this note, add my pipe. > > > > If the speed with which LaTeX could operate were such that output > > could be produced and displayed within the timeframe of a human > > keystroke (for fun, lets say you're a really good 150 wpm > typist), how > > would this differ from WYSIWYG? > > > > > Because LyX contains SEMANTIC markup, which means the > document can be rendered in who knows how many different > formats simply by changing the document class. This is > similar in spirit to the separation of content and > presentation in XHTML/CSS, the "semantic web", and all such > good things.
One would not expect that the layout would change between the strokes of keys struck during textual input, for instance. Hence, as far as the user would be concerned (and where the LyX display is configured so as to *roughly* represent the final output - see the assertions of Mr. Litt), it would look just like the WYSIWYG system that I like to use. Visually, you would not be able to tell the difference. > > LyX is not WYSIWYG, unless your display side is tantamount > to a LaTeX > > processor, and if that is the case, why not just save the produced > > image, instead of running LaTeX again to produce a file? > > > > > See above. > > > I think the product is both, and yet lacking in some very > interesting > > ways, this view subject to my lack of detailed knowledge of > La/TeX. > > What I find missing is knobs. I guess I have to get used > to working > > without knobs. Ventura Publisher has lots of knobs to its user > > interface, really powerful knobs. > > > > > You CAN do almost anything with LaTeX. Major publishing > houses use it all the time. But I wouldn't want to try to > format a magazine with it. > It's not that kind of program. If that's the kind of thing > you're looking to do, then LyX is the wrong tool. But it > would be silly to criticize LyX/LaTeX for that. It's like > criticizing a hammer because it doesn't help you with screws. All critical review is of value. And, the passionate response you give here is well understood. Yet, I did not complain about LyX. I am merely comparing LyX with another tool that I know well, and noting the variations between them. I do not expect that any change to LyX will come from my commentary. Still, it is likely that others will appreciate the different point of view, one with differences from those others which may occasion this list. I do agree strongly that one asks the tool how it wants to be used. No use trying to apply a hammer to a screw. > > One point of decorum, please, do not confuse Ventura Publisher with > > the limitations associated with brochures and pamphlets. > VP is first > > and foremost intended for the production of large volumes, > including > > multi-volume books. It is a dream tool for those who edit > and publish > > collections of essays. To boot, it will handle a > publication of many > > thousands of pages, all while allowing you to adjust the > position of a > > period at the end of a particular sentence. It you want, it will > > layout the text for you. If you want, it will let you > layout the text > > with the finest degree of control. That choice is yours. > > > > > No one was criticizing VP and related programs on that > ground. We just think LyX/LaTeX is better for certain kinds > of applications, including book production---though probably > not coffeetable art book production. > As Uwe mentioned, LaTeX handles bibliographies, indices, and > the like with a facility other programs sorely lack, and the > fact the LaTeX prefers semantic markup makes it possible to > make major changes to presentation in an instant. You can > even render the file as Braille, and LaTeX will handle the > conventions regarding emphasis and the like for you. > > LaTeX too will allow nearly unlimited control. But you have > to know how to use it, and LyX won't help you with all of > that, though it will help you with some. LyX is for writers, > not page layout folks. You want to do page layout with LyX, > then you're in the land of LaTeX. But (a) you should do this > only when you are completely done writing and (b) you might > as well export to LaTeX and mess directly with the code at > that point. Or, again, much of what you want to do may > involve tweaking LaTeX class files, and that has nothing to > do with LyX. > > > LyX clearly eases the burden of writing the *assembly language of > > words* and that is a godsend to me. I think that LyX can > be every bit > > as WYSIWYG as Ventura Publisher, without sacrificing the > WYSIWYM ethos > > of La/TeX. > > > > > But, first, you're assuming that there's one intended output > format, and that just isn't always true. And more Multiple ouotput formats are easily supported in Ventura, just change the stylesheet, and the entire publication changes format, etc. > importantly, none of us developers---I'd be shocked if I > don't speak for all of us---want LyX to be WYSIWYG. At least > lots of us think that WYSISYM positively INTERFERES with the > process of writing. The separation of content from > presentation revolutionized the process of writing for me. > But you do have to get used to it and, well, just stop > fussing so much over details of presentation, at least until > you're done writing. Why mess with where a figure goes when > the whole page may change? This is exactly the process I use with Ventura. Write the text, then later, ususally much later, format the document. I use Ventura like a typewriter, just like other writers. > Of course, if you're a page layout person, then that's > different. But then LyX isn't your tool. LyX is proving to be quite analogous in its approach as that which is used in Ventura Publisher. > > Perhaps I express naïveté but, why does every .lyx document contain > > only one LaTeX file? Would it not make sense for *box* and > its kind > > to contain separately TeXable source? LyX could then at a higher > > level piece a document together, page by page, outputting > the image to > > a PDF, or what have you? > > > > > LyX doesn't contain LaTeX files at all. Rather, LyX files are > in its own format, and they are exported to LaTeX as required > for conversion, etc. Details, details. This is a non-answer to my question. > You can even see paragraphs rendered on the fly if you > View>Source. But yes, in a way, each LyX file is one LaTeX > file. Still, boxes do contain what is effectively LaTeX code. > And if you want to build a document from several LyX files, > then you can use the Include and Input mechanisms to do that. > The natural way to write a book in LyX is to have a file for > each chapter and a "master document" that then includes them all. This is exactly the mechanism used in Ventura, separate files for the chapters, and these are imported into the publication. A few keystrokes later, you have book, index, bibliography, appendices, and glossary. wrb > RH
