They do pay attention. In a software system like this there are hundreds of thousands of lines of code. there are at times hundreds to a few thousands of bugs in a program like Yosemite. Things get fixed in level of severity. Not that your problems are not saver, but they do get fixed. If apple tried to fix all bugs on release they would never release any software. It is just the nature of the beast. When Jaws or Window-eyes get released there are bugs, and they sometimes don't get fixed for months, but most people just acknowledge that as normal, and go on with their days, and work around the bugs.
Best, > On Oct 19, 2014, at 5:23 PM, Pamela Francis <gypsykitt...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Buddy, > I can't disagree with your post, however my question to you is this why when > there are visually impaired beta testers under NDA specifically to report > issues that deal with accessibility does Apple not pay attention to what is > being reported to them? If it was something to do with graphics for the way > another file was managed that handled iMessage as an example that was broken > having nothing to do with us it will get fixed. However if the same issue > happened to us because of our accessibility needs, we would be further down > the queue. That's the issue I have. Is not about special treatment. Our > accessibility to their equipment, is as important as any other function of > the unit. > Pam Francis > > On Oct 19, 2014, at 6:33 PM, Buddy Brannan <bu...@brannan.name> wrote: > > See, here's the thing. We *are* being treated like everyone else. Now that we > have mainstream access to mainstream products, that also means that our bugs > get stuck in the queue with everyone else's bugs. They get prioritized along > with everybody else's bugs. And they get fixed in the schedule with everybody > else's bugs. The tradeoff we get for out of the box accessibility from a > mainstream manufacturer is that we don't get special releases or fixes > specific to our needs. We get them on the same schedule as everyone else's > bugs. Sometimes we may not like the priority our requests get, but it's the > price we pay for getting exactly what we've asked for for years. > > Change is inevitable. iTunes has changed. I'm not a huge fan of the change > either, but there it is, and I can still use it, even if I like it less. My > like or dislike of it, however, doesn't have any bearing on whether or not > it's accessible. Same with Yosemite in general; it's changed. I haven't > really had any real problems with it, generally speaking. I mostly like the > changes, apart of course for iTunes 12. But I'm definitely not seeing > significant accessibility impacts on what I do with OS X from day to day. > > Yep. Early betas were pretty awful. Early betas for iOS8 were also horribly > broken. But that's why they're betas. I've told people who have asked me > whether iOS8 is worth having, I've told them that I have a pretty skewed view > on that, since by comparison to the early betas, it's really good, so I have > no significant complaints. Well...I have to say, I've recently had occasion > to look at iTunes Radio, and notice that it doesn't really read the way > they're supposed to. I expect it will get fixed in due course, but, again, on > Apple's schedule, along with everybody else's bugs, in the queue, in its > order, in priority with everybody else's bugs. Because seriously, if you > think that we're the only ones dealing with bugs, sometimes really > inconvenient bugs, you're at best naive, at worst delusional. > > Anyway, yes. We have gotten exactly what we've been asking for. That > sometimes means unpleasant side effects. Myself, I'm happy to take the > unpleasant side effects as a part of the whole package. Does this make me an > Apple apologist? Does this mean that I'm willing to settle for the crumbs > from the table, as it were, and am content with my lot as a second-class > citizen? far from it. It means I recognize that my problems are a subset of > all the problems that Apple is dealing with to make things work, sometimes in > the face of pretty significant change. > > Absolutely send notes to the accessibility team. But if you do, be specific. > If you can't be specific, don't bother, because no one can fix bugs without > specific ways to reproduce them. > > -- > Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA > Phone: 814-860-3194 > Mobile: 814-431-0962 > Email: bu...@brannan.name > > > >> On Oct 19, 2014, at 7:09 PM, Pamela Francis <gypsykitt...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> In the answer to a couple of your questions, ask for a company making their >> products usable by the disabled, do you or do you not remember what sharp >> did for us with talking clocks and calculators? Do you also know that >> Panasonic makes optional talking caller ID in its cordless phones? For >> years swans foods offered all of their catalogs in braille along with their >> cooking directions as one could also read on their boxes. It is not >> unreasonable or pompous to expect to be treated the same as anyone else in >> the same store paying the same money for the same product. If you consider >> that pompous, you must be living with your parents who do everything for >> you. I do not. I've lived away from my family since 1974, then married, >> raise two children and have four grandchildren. I've been through the times >> where we didn't as much as have digital readings on elevators or braille on >> hotel room doors. I travel anywhere I want to go, do anything I want to do. >> I do not expect special treatment. I ask for what I need. >> >> Pam Francis >> >> On Oct 19, 2014, at 5:10 PM, The Believer <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote: >> >> That is a first. The general public now dictates what the disabled public >> gets? Apple develops products for the mainstream market...and they also have >> enabled these same products to be usable by the disabled. Can amy other >> comppany claim that? >> >> We all can walk into any Apple store along with the sighted general public >> and buy the same products they do and use the same products alongside them. >> >> And if we have an issue with our product, we can walk into any Apple store >> or cal their toll free number and get the same assistance. >> >> Why should we expect any different treatment? Because we are blind? That, >> IMO, is shortsightedness and perhaps even pompous. It certainly will not get >> one very far. >> >> No one is glossing over anything. On the other hand, some are over the top >> downright unreasonable. >> >> From The Believer. . . >> . . . what if it were true? >> ancient.ali...@icloud.com >> >>> On 10/19/2014 2:02 PM, Pamela Francis wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I'm normally not one to complain for the sake of complaining. I am a >>> realist. I know that we as a market are a minority within Apple's customer >>> base. I will give them credit where it's due. They did take the lead in >>> accessibility. However, mainstream society has caught on to the fact that >>> Apple products are accessible to blind people. That in itself is a double >>> edge sword. None of us want to be put into a corner and told what is good >>> for us by our cited peers. we want general society to except what we can >>> use on its own merit showing them we can use products that they can use. >>> there are still those who think that Apple products are simply all we can >>> use. It's an all or nothing statement within the cited community as much as >>> it is within our community. If that same statement is made with an aside a >>> community, no one gripes. However if we say anything, we're complaining. >>> Apple has become aware of what the cited community believes it's capable of >>> doing for us, therefore they have >> become lackadaisical forcing us to settle for whatever they throw at us, as >> it has been within Windows another third-party screen readers. If I go in to >> the grocery store and purchase what is supposed to be a complete packaged >> product, get it home find out it isn't, take it back to the store; am I >> complaining because I can't see? I don't think so. >>> What I'm getting at by this rant is if there is a given feature supported >>> by a given manufacturer that is designed for us or any other accessibility >>> community, it should be fully featured and attended to with the same fervor >>> as is done for the majority of its customer base. The fact that they >>> maintain an accessibility line within itself on its face is a good thing. >>> However, if those people truly have no say as to how things are done, are >>> they there only for lipservice? I'm not willing to walk into a store, pay >>> the same price for a product that my cited peers do and not have a right to >>> complain about its functionality whether it's for me or for my cited peers. >>> We as a blind community for too many years have been told we had to settle >>> for second place. In many cases prior to the Internet we didn't have a >>> means to communicate with people are issues, therefore we were forced to >>> settle. That is no longer the case. To those who choose to regale the >>> things that Apple does without being w >> illing to admit apples faults, you are hurting all of us. Take that for what >> it's worth. >>> >>> Pam Francis >>> >>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 2:23 PM, The Believer <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote: >>> >>> I did not have a disastrous experience. I had just gotten a new Macbook >>> with Mountain Lion and Mavericks came out shortly after that. And history >>> repeats itself today with Yosemite. >>> >>> There were many complaints about Mavericks. Meanwhile, I worked with ML, >>> trying to forget Windows. Finally I upgraded to Mavericks about a month >>> ago! (smiles) >>> >>> I am still learning to use the Mac but it may not take me as long to move >>> to Yosemite. Maybe a month? I will install iOS 8 at the same time but not >>> intil both are better behaved. >>> >>> From The Believer. . . >>> . . . what if it were true? >>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com >>> >>>> On 10/19/2014 12:15 PM, Christine Grassman wrote: >>>> I agree. While I would stop short of placing Apple on a pedestal, as no >>>> one or company is worthy of that level of responsibility, I am realistic >>>> about the varying preferences and needs of a customer base consisting of >>>> millions of people, and I am steadfastly grateful for Apple and its >>>> integral part in allowing me to complete the essential tasks of my job and >>>> to enjoy much of what my sighted peers enjoy on a reasonably equitable >>>> playing field out of the box. >>>> I intend to write to Apple as someone who continues to appreciate its >>>> devices and software a great deal, and urge it not to forget little me and >>>> those like me. >>>> I think any "absolutist" or all-or-nothing statements do no good. >>>> I decided after a disastrous experience with Mavericks when it was first >>>> released that I would never again update immediately after a first >>>> release. I am anxious to avail myself of continuity, hand off, iBooks, and >>>> answering calls on my MacBook, but I can wait. I know for a fact that a >>>> VoiceOver lag will bother me in the extreme, and the very first thing I >>>> did was read Applevis's article on the bugs, even though I had no >>>> intention of updating right away. I am currently content, and I await >>>> Yosemite's evolution. >>>> Christine >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
