Oh Jonathan, you’ve made my day, and my Christmas wish list for the family. Jenine Stanley dragonwalke...@gmail.com
> On Mar 29, 2016, at 7:13 PM, Jonathan Mosen <jmo...@mosen.org> wrote: > > The thing is, they're every bit as good. I got a jeweller to take a look for > me before I plonked my money down. Yes, I got a Milanese Loop as part of my > merry band of bands and I think that one was $18 on special. > Jonathan Mosen > Mosen Consulting > Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training > http://Mosen.org <http://mosen.org/> >> On 30/03/2016, at 9:35 AM, Jenine Stanley <dragonwalke...@gmail.com >> <mailto:dragonwalke...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Oh, I’ve heard much good about the third party bands. I want to physically >> see some of them first. Now if they do have an immitation black Milanese >> Loop, I’m there. >> Jenine Stanley >> dragonwalke...@gmail.com <mailto:dragonwalke...@gmail.com> >> >> >> >>> On Mar 29, 2016, at 2:50 PM, Jonathan Mosen <jmo...@mosen.org >>> <mailto:jmo...@mosen.org>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Jenine, don't let price put you off. In my opinion, what Apple is >>> charging for the bands is outrageous. I did some research and found some >>> third-party alternatives on Amazon. There's a beautiful steel band that is >>> every bit as good as the one apple is selling. It's original purchase price >>> was a little over $100, but it was on special for $20 for a limited time. >>> It's great and gets a 4.5 star rating from Amazon too. I was able to get a >>> great collection of bands for less than the cost of buying one good one >>> from Apple. >>> Jonathan Mosen >>> Mosen Consulting >>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training >>> http://Mosen.org <http://mosen.org/> >>>> On 29/03/2016, at 4:37 AM, Jenine Stanley <dragonwalke...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:dragonwalke...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I’m smiling about this as the Milanese is the nicest band they offer in my >>>> price range. >>>> Jenine Stanley >>>> dragonwalke...@gmail.com <mailto:dragonwalke...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mar 28, 2016, at 11:09 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland >>>>> <clgillan...@gmail.com <mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Slightly, yes, it does loosen a tad, but nothing really substantial. And >>>>> when it does, I just readjust. No big deal. Apple said with the type of >>>>> band this is, and just the nature of it in general, it's normal for the >>>>> milinese to do that. >>>>> >>>>> It's probably not the nicest band that they offer, but hey, it works. >>>>> --- >>>>> Christopher Gilland >>>>> JAWS Certified, 2016. >>>>> Training Instructor. >>>>> >>>>> clgillan...@gmail.com <mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com> >>>>> Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Jenine Stanley <mailto:dragonwalke...@gmail.com> >>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 10:58 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: Apple Watch: I love it, but I hate it. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think you made a good choice in getting the band initially that works >>>>>> best for you. The first time I changed bands, it was harder than I >>>>>> thought. Triggering the little indented area to release the band is >>>>>> harder than it initially seems but again, once you get the knack of it, >>>>>> changing bands becomes quite easy. Getting that knack can be maddening >>>>>> though. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does your Loop band gradually loosen during the day? Mine tends to do >>>>>> this. >>>>>> Jenine Stanley >>>>>> dragonwalke...@gmail.com <mailto:dragonwalke...@gmail.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:16 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland >>>>>>> <clgillan...@gmail.com <mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mainly because I have mild cerebral pausy in both my hands, and so we >>>>>>> had two issues. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Firstly, I was concerned that it would be very difficult with my lack >>>>>>> of good fine motor skills, and the slight trimmer in both my hands to >>>>>>> get the band I wanted connected to the watch. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apple and I talked about the possibility of me getting the Sports >>>>>>> model, but we both felt that given the above issue, it would probably >>>>>>> be best for me to get the Milinese band, seeing that there is no buckle >>>>>>> or snap, or anything of sort that I'd have to worry about. Plus, there >>>>>>> is no threading the band through another loophole, or anything of sort. >>>>>>> Just put it on my wrist, pull the little part of the band down to >>>>>>> tighten it, and let go, and let it magnitize itself to the bottom of >>>>>>> the band. Boom, done. I know I could have gotten the milinese band >>>>>>> seperet for the sports, but then it goes back to issue 1. It wouldn't >>>>>>> come with that band already on it, so to save me a little less trouble, >>>>>>> I just went ahead and said give me the stainless steel with the >>>>>>> milinese, and have the band already on it connected when I open the box. >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> Christopher Gilland >>>>>>> JAWS Certified, 2016. >>>>>>> Training Instructor. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> clgillan...@gmail.com <mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401. >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: Sarai Bucciarelli <mailto:sarai.bucciare...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 9:08 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Apple Watch: I love it, but I hate it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Good post! Now, why did you choose the SS version over the sport? >>>>>>>>> On Mar 27, 2016, at 8:01 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland >>>>>>>>> <clgillan...@gmail.com <mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Guys, let me intro this post by saying a few things, just to make >>>>>>>>> sure none of us get off on the wrong foot. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This post isn't going to be like a lot of things I've posted where I >>>>>>>>> just flat out bash a product to shreds. I do have a bad tendency to >>>>>>>>> do that. Actually, if anything, I plan in this message to give both >>>>>>>>> the good and the bad, and to fairly contrast. My feelings actually >>>>>>>>> of the watch are more good than they are bad, but I do have a few >>>>>>>>> issues, and I'd like to see if any of you other watch owners feel the >>>>>>>>> same way. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, a little background to start with. One of my friends, Jessie >>>>>>>>> Hernandez, called me up one day about half a year ago. He had just >>>>>>>>> gotten himself an Apple Watch, and wanted to tell me about it, and >>>>>>>>> how floored he was at how well it worked. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At first, I was really sceptical. I mean, really! really! sceptical. >>>>>>>>> I thought, OK, firstly, how in the world can you type on the thing >>>>>>>>> being it's a small watch face screen? Realize that this was before I >>>>>>>>> understood that you kind a don't. It's all done with Siri dictation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I also thought to myself, OK, so I can check the time, set timers and >>>>>>>>> alarms, send and receive texts/e-mails, and make/receive phone calls. >>>>>>>>> Big whoo. I can't browse the web, I can't this, I can't that. I >>>>>>>>> just didn't see how the watch really could be all that useful. Why >>>>>>>>> not just use my phone to do what I need? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I decided I'd have an open mind, and would give it a fair chance >>>>>>>>> though. I therefore setup a time with Jessie to spend about an hour >>>>>>>>> just going through the watch with me, and demonstrating for me over >>>>>>>>> the phone how it worked. I must say that by the end of the hour, I >>>>>>>>> was absolutely blown away! True, there were things I wanted the >>>>>>>>> watch to do, that it simply put, couldn't. That said though, I was >>>>>>>>> extremely impressed at how seemless the watch integraded with the >>>>>>>>> phone, and how easy it was to do the things with it that it could! do. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As the next few months went on, I debated back and forth if I really >>>>>>>>> wanted to get a watch for myself. I was really torn. On the one >>>>>>>>> hand, I loved what I'd seen, yet on the other hand, the new Apple TV >>>>>>>>> 4 was coming out pretty soon, and the things I'd heard about it vs. >>>>>>>>> the 3rd generation had me absolutely drewling! So, yeah, I was >>>>>>>>> pretty torn. I couldn't afford both. It either had to be one or the >>>>>>>>> other. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I won't bore you with more background. I'll just get right to the >>>>>>>>> point of the watch, but long story short, I wound up giving in, and I >>>>>>>>> got the 38M stainless steel Apple Watch with the Milinese loop band. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Once I got the watch, the first thing I realized was though very >>>>>>>>> small, I'll give you that, to my defense, the speaker on the IPhone >>>>>>>>> 6S is about the same size, maybe a little bigger, but not by much >>>>>>>>> than that of the watch. That said though, on the watch when turned >>>>>>>>> up all the way, it's ridiculously quiet! Don't get me wrong, if >>>>>>>>> you're in a quiet area, and I do mean quiet, it is audible. It's >>>>>>>>> certainly doable, but I guess I just would have expected it to be >>>>>>>>> ever so slightly louder. When I listened to the demos that David >>>>>>>>> Woodbridge did on Applevis, his watch sounded quite louder. Now, in >>>>>>>>> his defense, he was! using a 42M, not a 38, but even still. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, the first few days, I wore my watch literally constantly. I >>>>>>>>> wouldn't let the thing out of my sight. I really really enjoyed >>>>>>>>> keeping the phone on the desk, or in my pocket, yet being able to get >>>>>>>>> push notifications on my wrist, etc. I also really really! liked, >>>>>>>>> and still do really like the cosmetic appearance of the watch along >>>>>>>>> with the Milinese band. It looks very businesslike, and very >>>>>>>>> masculine. It just looks very... well... me. I even went out a few >>>>>>>>> times for lunch with my grandmother and got compliments from people >>>>>>>>> walking by, or would overhear people talking, like, wooo, look at >>>>>>>>> that guy over there. He's got an Apple Watch! Dang does it look >>>>>>>>> nice! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, you probably by now are wonderring why I say, I love my watch, >>>>>>>>> but I hate it, as up to this point, everything I've said indicates I >>>>>>>>> am in love with the thing. For the most part, I am. I guess I'm >>>>>>>>> just a little disappointed though with a few things. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For one, obviously the sound quality. I was really really hoping >>>>>>>>> that the volume would be a little bit louder. Yes, I know about >>>>>>>>> turning up the volume of voiceover. Trust me. I've already done >>>>>>>>> that. That did help some, yes, but not much. Realize though that I >>>>>>>>> do have a quite moderate hearing loss, so that could be playing a >>>>>>>>> factor in this, to Apple's credit. It might not be all them. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> After a while though, I confess, I've kind a quit wearing the watch >>>>>>>>> so regularly. Don't get me wrong here, guys. I love the watch, but >>>>>>>>> meh... I dunno. After a while, it just kind a got to the point where >>>>>>>>> it got kind of old. I see the watch more now not so much as a killer >>>>>>>>> product as I did at first, but more as a convenience. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What I mean by that is this. Really honestly, all the watch really >>>>>>>>> truly seems to do is maybe give me access to a few things without >>>>>>>>> grabbing my phone. things like setting alarms, checking upcoming >>>>>>>>> appointments, checking the time, setting timers, looking at the >>>>>>>>> weather, etc. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for 3rd party apps, yeah, they're great, but realistically >>>>>>>>> speaking, all they really do for the most part is one of two things. >>>>>>>>> Either 1, they do nothing really more than just push notifications to >>>>>>>>> the watch. OK, in some ways, this is kind a cool. I'll grantcha >>>>>>>>> that. Admittedly, it is kind a nice to not have to grab my phone >>>>>>>>> every time a notification comes through. The thing though is, I get >>>>>>>>> a push notification, I raise my wrist, I tap the screen of the watch >>>>>>>>> to see what it is, and hear Voiceover tell me. OK, let's say it's >>>>>>>>> something important. OK, so I then double tap the face of the watch. >>>>>>>>> This either pops me into the app on the watch, if I have it >>>>>>>>> installed, or it just simply tells me it can help me on my phone. If >>>>>>>>> the app is! installed on my watch, then usually it's incredibly >>>>>>>>> limited. Anything that I try doing, it's gonna not carry out on the >>>>>>>>> watch. At some point, I'm gonna have to grab my phone to finnish the >>>>>>>>> task. Never mind, if I'm in a loud area, I can't really hear the >>>>>>>>> watch anyway, which practically makes it useless. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Here's another thing. What about developers not taking full >>>>>>>>> advantage of all the API's that are available. Let me give you a >>>>>>>>> very very simple example. Let's take the app Just Press Record. >>>>>>>>> Nothing wrong with the app. In fact, this dev actually did things >>>>>>>>> right in my opinion. Clearly, they used all API's. They have the >>>>>>>>> ability to listen to your notes locally on the watch speaker. You >>>>>>>>> don't have to listen on your phone. I mean, you can! don't get me >>>>>>>>> wrong, but it's not required. Also, when recording, it doesn't make >>>>>>>>> you hit record on the watch, then hand it off to your phone. I can't >>>>>>>>> tell you how many apps I know of which would use your mike or would >>>>>>>>> use audio do this. More that use audio. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Skype, for instance: why on earth give me an app for the watch, >>>>>>>>> when all it does is let's me text chat? And even worse. I can't >>>>>>>>> even access my contact list from the watch. I first have to add my >>>>>>>>> contacts from the phone into my favorites. then, and only! then, can >>>>>>>>> I access them on the watch, but yet still! only engage via text, not >>>>>>>>> via voice. I could see no video ability, I mean, that would be >>>>>>>>> absurd, but at least! give us voice ability. The API's are both >>>>>>>>> there for sound through the watch speaker, and for using the watch's >>>>>>>>> internal microphone, so, what gives? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What about Zello? This one's even more! a nightmare! I can see my >>>>>>>>> contact list, but if someone zellos me, all I get is a notification >>>>>>>>> on the watch saying Jane Doe is talking. Double tap that >>>>>>>>> notification, and bam. Zello opens on my phone. Say on the watch I >>>>>>>>> double tap on Jane Doe to initiate a conversation. Oh, I get the >>>>>>>>> hold and talk button, yeah, but as soon as I double tap it and hold, >>>>>>>>> I hear the chirp sound on my phone, not my watch, which never mind, >>>>>>>>> is in my pocket, and never mind that it's now routing what I say >>>>>>>>> through my phone's microphone, not the watch. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Let's talk GPS. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I love that maps works so seemlessly on the watch. There's just one >>>>>>>>> problem as a blind person. The watch won't verbally give you turn by >>>>>>>>> turn directions unless you physically tap on the screen. Yeah, it'll >>>>>>>>> vibrate to tell you you have an upcoming turn, and believe me, I love >>>>>>>>> that! But, then, I have to take my other hand, touch the watch, and >>>>>>>>> see what it says. This is horrible! As how am I effectively going to >>>>>>>>> hold my cane, or my dog's harnis, while touching the face of my >>>>>>>>> watch? I didn't say it can't be done, but I probably look like a >>>>>>>>> total dweebe doing it. Hold on hare Fido, let mih check mih >>>>>>>>> wristers. Hee'ee'eel, fido. Goo'oo'ood doggy. LOL! You get the >>>>>>>>> point. Never mind the treelemb I just smashed into because I was not >>>>>>>>> using my cane while trying to look at the clock face. You say, >>>>>>>>> that's why you stop while you look. Yeah yeah, I know. Don't rub it >>>>>>>>> in. LOL! My point still stands. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I dono. Clearly apps have ways to use the internal speaker, so why >>>>>>>>> can't Apple make an option to either play voice guidance through the >>>>>>>>> watch speaker, vibrate only, or do both. I like choices, of which >>>>>>>>> right now, choices we don't exactly have. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, yeah, in conclusion, I love my watch, but after having it now >>>>>>>>> going on about 4 months, I dono. I have mixed feelings. I'm not >>>>>>>>> disappointed I got the thing, and I have no plans to sell it, nor get >>>>>>>>> rid of it, but admittedly, I am a little bit saddened that in some >>>>>>>>> ways it's very limited. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Now one thing I do! like, is using Hey Siri on the watch. That is so >>>>>>>>> convenient! Like today, I was eating an Easter lunch with family. I >>>>>>>>> was putting the final touches on the deviled eggs, so obviously I had >>>>>>>>> egg, and mayo all over my hands. Obviously, you don't wanna be >>>>>>>>> touching the watch with your hands in that condition. So, while that >>>>>>>>> was going, my mom put the apple pie, no pun intended, in the oven, >>>>>>>>> and asked me to set the timer, being that the timer on our oven is >>>>>>>>> broken for some weird reason. So, no biggy. I just raised my wrist, >>>>>>>>> and set my timer with Hey Siri, no hand interaction at all. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Or if I'm sitting across the room, and have my phone docked on my >>>>>>>>> stereo, or am lying in bed. I can stay chillin in my recliner/bed >>>>>>>>> and just say, Hey Siri, play the Greatest Hits by Alan Jackson. >>>>>>>>> Boom! Seconds later, there comes Chatahoochee out my speakers. I >>>>>>>>> can go to the next song, or previous song, stop and start playing, >>>>>>>>> turn on and off repeat and shuffle, love a track/album, start a >>>>>>>>> station, turn my crown to move the volume up or down, etc. So from >>>>>>>>> the standpoint of the music app, that is gorgeous with hey siri >>>>>>>>> integration. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So yeah, there're things I love, but there are just enough that I >>>>>>>>> also hate. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What are you all's thoughts? >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> Christopher Gilland >>>>>>>>> JAWS Certified, 2016. >>>>>>>>> Training Instructor. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> clgillan...@gmail.com <mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is >>>>>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sarai D. 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you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara > Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries > <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
