HI: I still use the good old item chooser. I can still hit vo/i and type the word of interest, then use the arrow keys to view the hits. I then use vo/a to read the contents. I really don't like the web item rotor. Vo/h takes you to headings, and my tab key seems to go through the links. I'll play with it some more, but sometimes the old way is best for me. :) The auto web spots can be handy though, but sometimes it's hard for me to choose them. Just my thoughts.
On Feb 11, 2010, at 6:46 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Yup. I use Safari way more than I do I.E. now a days. I honestly couldn't > stand the internet on my Mac with Leopard. But once Snow Leopard came out at > the end of August, it changed the game for me. The rotor function along with > the web spots really help things to move a long for me as far as navigating > the web. Even the navigation with the arrows... when it decides to work) has > made Safari on the Mac with voiceover a more enjoyable experience. It all > depends on the situation too. I like using the internet on my Mac when > working with sighted people. it is just a more seamless transition in my > opinion especially if one has a track pad. But if I just want to gobble up a > large chunk of info really quick I still think jaws and windows has an > advantage. . > On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I was VP of Software Engineering at FS when we invented a lot of what is now >> the common user interface on Windows screen readers. I am proud of the work >> we did as we certainly moved the art forward. >> >> Now, I use Macintosh with Safari. The Windows way of doing things tried to >> emulate a word processor or some other similar text manipulation application >> with which a user would already be familiar. This is good in the sense that >> the learning curve is not too steep but leaves out all of the contextual >> information a sighted user would have resulting from the juxtaposition of >> objects in the page's layout. >> >> I use both DOM and Groups mode with Safari depending upon the site. A >> relatively linear site works best with DOM mode as it likes to function in a >> straight line. Busier sites, however, seem to prefer Groups mode as one can >> move from big chunk to big chunk rapidly while also learning where objects >> are in the layout and, by knowing what's near what, you can learn to >> navigate some sites really quickly and without a lot of caca in between >> items of value. >> >> The trackpad commander is awesome for web browsing but you need either a >> MacBook or MacBook Pro to enjoy this. A friend over at Serotek told me about >> a multi-touch trackpad that works both in Windows 7 and Snow Leopard that >> you can add onto other models but I haven't seen it in action. >> >> So, give Safari and the VoiceOver features a bit longer, use the rotor, the >> item chooser and learn the keystrokes that make web browsing easier and I >> think you will start to enjoy it more. >> >> Of course, JAWS introduced the original virtual buffer system for web >> browsing back in 1998 and has a lot of time for refinements. It is good but, >> especially regarding contextual information, is starting to fall behind >> newer and more forward looking ideas popping up around the AT world. >> >> cdh >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I've been a Mac user for almost 2 years, and I personally don't find the >>> web browsing experience on my Mac using Safari with voiceover to be on par >>> with that of internet explorer and Jaws. For example, Look at the steps >>> you explained to highlight and copy text "If you interact with text, use >>> VO-shift-return, you can initiate marking of text and use VO-cursor keys to >>> navigate and mark that text, then use VO-shift-return to stop marking the >>> text. FInally command-c will copy that text for you to paste where you >>> choose. You can also interact with text and use command-a to highlight all >>> text you can then copy..." On I.E. you would just use shift and the arrows >>> or some function of navigation commonly used throughout the Operating >>> system. In Snow Leopard one should be able to use the arrows by them >>> selves to navigate a web page and with shift to select. This is not the >>> case most of the time. The folks didn't include this functionality into >>> snow leopard by accident or just to appease windows converts in my opinion. >>> They realized that the previous method was just a pain, not to mention >>> labor intensive in regards to the task actually trying to be accomplished. >>> I use Dom mode and sometimes voiceover indeed skips over chunks of >>> information. I am not saying that Safari with Voiceover isn't serviceable >>> but, by no means in my opinion is it as dependable as I.E. with Jaws. And >>> this is coming from someone who Uses their Mac as their primary computer. >>> On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:48 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >>> >>>> I think you need to take some additional time to learn how best to use >>>> Safari with VOiceOver. I've been using the Mac for five years now and >>>> although like any browser and screen reader, Safari and VO has issues, but >>>> certainly not to the degree you seem to be having. Reading line by line >>>> is no problem at all and copying information to the clipboard is again, no >>>> problem. There is lots of information on how to accomplish both tasks and >>>> perhaps a little research on your part will help. I'll give you a tip. >>>> If you interact with text, use VO-shift-return, you can initiate marking >>>> of text and use VO-cursor keys to navigate and mark that text, then use >>>> VO-shift-return to stop marking the text. FInally command-c will copy >>>> that text for you to paste where you choose. You can also interact with >>>> text and use command-a to highlight all text you can then copy. You >>>> coming from windows and using IE may find DOM mode more like your browsing >>>> experience under windows using a windows-based screen reader. If your >>>> using Groups mode, you are going to find the navigation of the page not to >>>> be linear as is provided by DOM mode. Groups mode gives a more accurate >>>> representation of how the page is laid out unlike DOM mode. >>>> Once you have used Safari a while, I think you will find it will meet your >>>> needs just fine. I am not so sure that even if Firefox is made >>>> accessible, you will find the browsing experience significantly different. >>>> I think what you will find is some differences in browsing experience as >>>> far as how some sites behave, but assuming Mozilla leverages the >>>> accessibility hooks of VO, the navigation will likely be quite similar. >>>> >>>> On Feb 11, 2010, at 6:59 AM, Lynn Schneider wrote: >>>> >>>>> Oh I would so love to have an alternative to Safari! I'm a fairly recent >>>>> switcher and I don't miss Windows at all except that I totally and >>>>> absolutely miss the great accessibility I had with IE. I hate the fact >>>>> that I can't read line by line or copy web page text to the clipboard and >>>>> he disturbing thing with VO and >>>>> Safari is that I find that whole parts of pages are not read at all. I >>>>> think Safari is the app I most dislike on the Mac. Everything else about >>>>> the Mac is wonderful. >>>>> On Feb 10, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Looking forward to trying out Firefox with VO working someday. FF has >>>>>> really good ARIA support so it would be nice to have a browser on the >>>>>> Mac that works well with this standard. Safari currently is weak. >>>>>> >>>>>> CB >>>>>> >>>>>> E.J. Zufelt wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Good morning, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This morning I posted a new blog article on my site: First Glance at >>>>>>> Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard, which can be accessed at >>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/ygkfqoj >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks,Everett >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter >>>>>>> http://twitter.com/ezufelt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> View my LinkedIn Profile >>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > carlene knight http://carleneknight.blogspot.com ckni...@knight-toolworks.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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