Has anybody presented a plausible argunent to apple about this? you make some very very good points here and if i remember I might discuss some of them on the mac casts. but since I can't write for crap I don't think my argument would work.
Take car eall. On Jun 3, 2010, at 5:14 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: > Hi, I don't consider this to be picky. The fact is a lot of screen readers > go through this faze. Remember jaws and the beating fs took for replacing > windows key M with insert f6. They did a lot of this sort of thing. So has > window-eyes to an extent. > > The issue in my mind is that on windows we have a plethora of excess keys to > be getting on with. We don't have that on the mac. They have gone out of > the way to make the keyboard as featureless as possible. How much more > powerful would your voiceover user experience be if you used all the > operating system keys, and half to 3 quarters of the vo keys were dispensed > with? Then you could put keyboard commander on the vo keys and extend the > functionality of voiceover by leaps and bounds. Plus, since most of the > operating system keys don't require the use of control, it would open up a > whole other hand for performing keystrokes. > > As a trainer, it would be much easier to teach this way. In fact, I tent to > go into client computers and turn off the tutorial messages because they just > confuse the way I want to teach. For example, why would you press control > option left or right arrow to move between dock items when the arrow keys on > their own will work just fine, and once you know what you are looking for you > can just type the first few letters and go straight there? It doesn't make > any sense to teach control option left or right arrow to navigate the dock, > other than as a practice exercise, and there are plenty of other ways to > practice using voiceover navigation. > > I think it has to go this way eventually, especially if apple finds a way to > give us even fewer keys to go with. > > Best, > > Erik Burggraaf > User support consultant, > Website: http://www.erik-burggraaf.com > Toll-free: 888-255-5194 > > On 2010-06-03, at 7:48 AM, Dónal Fitzpatrick wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Couldn't agree more with this Erik. One can look at a screenreader in terms >> of usability metrics, and this, I'm afraid, is one area where VO falls down. >> Mind you, there are so many areas where it is superb that I'm probably being >> particularly picky. *smile* >> >> Cheers >> >> Dónal >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of erik burggraaf >> Sent: 03 June 2010 12:44 >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: Getting Out of the Box on the Mac >> >> Well, actually, there are a huge array of mac operating system keys that >> have been replaced by voiceover keys, or at least supplanted. Most of these >> don't require the control key, so you are not limitted to the left hand. I >> quite honestly wish voiceover would drop a lot of it's baggage and teach mac >> OS more through it's help system. >> >> Best, >> >> Erik Burggraaf >> User support consultant, >> Website: http://www.erik-burggraaf.com >> Toll-free: 888-255-5194 >> >> On 2010-06-02, at 7:33 PM, Kimberly thurman wrote: >> >>> I've also found my self playing finger twister with the left hand. If I >> could find any faults with VO it would be that there are often two many keys >> included in keyboard combinations, but I suppose there's no help for it. >> LOL!!! >>> On Jun 2, 2010, at 6:07 PM, Carolyn wrote: >>> >>>> Erik: >>>> Thanks for this, even though it was in response to Mark. I've wondered >> about but been afraid to mess with Cursor wrapping. >>>> I've also often wished I had 6 or 8 fingers on my left hand!:) >>>> TC >>>> >>>> Carolyn >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: erik burggraaf >>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 3:05 PM >>>> Subject: Re: Getting Out of the Box on the Mac >>>> >>>> Hi Mark, The elegant way to do this is to check the box to rap the >> voiceover curser. Then when you reach the bottom or end of a dialog box, >> pressing vo right arrow will take you right back to the top. Similarly, if >> you are at the top, pressing vo left arrow will take you to the bottom. >>>> >>>> The inelegant way to do this is by pressing... are you ready for this? >>>> Control, option, shift, fn, left arrow to go to the top, >>>> and Control, option, shift, fn, right arrow to go to the bottom. >>>> See I knew you werent' ready. Don't try to finess this, just mash down >> the whole bottom left of your keyboard pretty much and giver with the arrow >> keys. >>>> >>>> Hope this helps, >>>> >>>> Erik Burggraaf >>>> User support consultant, >>>> Website: http://www.erik-burggraaf.com >>>> Toll-free: 888-255-5194 >>>> >>>> On 2010-06-02, at 4:43 PM, M. Taylor wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Everyone, >>>>> >>>>> OK, so I'm interacting with elements in the VoiceOver Dialog Box. >>>>> Eventually, my VoiceOver cursor lands on the Help button at the lower >> right >>>>> of the Dialog Box. >>>>> >>>>> Until now, I have to continuously press VoiceOver Left-Arrow until I >> reach a >>>>> place, like a Tab, where I can stop interacting with the current area. >> That >>>>> is to say, I cannot stop interacting when I first land on the Help >> button. >>>>> >>>>> So, my question: >>>>> >>>>> Is there a way to stop interacting or immediately jump back up to the >>>>> beginning of a Dialog Box with VoiceOver? >>>>> >>>>> Mark >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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