She did great last night, so let's just hope the pattern continues.
Chris.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gigi
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Cc: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: question for all voice over trainers: trouble interacting with
items
Hi Chris
You may have already thought of this, but have you thought about asking her
why she's not practicing? She may be afraid that she's going to break her
computer if you're not fair to help her. She may also have other reasons that
she's not telling. After all, she's not lying to you. She could say that she
was practicing, even when she was not.
Regards
Gigi
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 4, 2012, at 8:30 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland"
<clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:
Being she only has 3 weeks, and constantly is admitting she's not
practicing at all... she's not paying me so I'm not out any money, gbut she is
waisting my time. I don't wanna be rude but I'm really at my limit. Maybe I'm
just too nice of a person. I do tend to tell it like it is most of the time,
but not when it's in a professional type environment. Then, I try to refrane.
Chris.
----- Original Message -----
From: erik burggraaf
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: question for all voice over trainers: trouble interacting
with items
Hi Chris, Erik here from ebony consulting in toronto. I feel your pain.
To comment on a couple of things that have been said, I actually find
that if you turn automatic interaction via tab key then things work more like
windows, in direct contrast to what others have said.
I also liked what Gigi said about sometimes when there's a disconnect
trying to teach the theory and apply it, you might be better off just rolling
with it. Teach a set of steps to accomplish a task and forget why it works as
long as it does. That's a more limited approach but it removes the fear
barrier as long as the set of steps works reliably.
All that assumes practice. 15 minutes a day is not really a hardship for
anyone. I always recommend that to my clients. I have two thoughts on this.
If my client is paying their own bills, then I will sit them down and tell them
straight up that they're wasting their money unless they make some changes.
Then if they still want to pay I keep taking their money and muddle along as
best I can. If an organization is paying for the support, then I sit the
client down and tell them they have to make the changes or they are going to
lose their funding. I have to document every hour as I'm sure you do as well.
When I get consistent no practice, I put it in the report and the client loses
their funding. It sucks to have to do that, but quite honestly, I'm not
making the kind of money that makes me want to deal with a lot of frustration.
As long as the effort is there I don't care how long it takes to nail down a
skill, but if the effort isn't there, then there's some one waiting in line to
take that person's spot, one fringe benefit of being a good trainer. :) You
can't save the world.
Hope this helps,
Erik Burggraaf
Introducing Ebony Consulting business card transcription service,
starting at $0.45 per card or $35 per hundred cards.
Ebony Consulting toll-free: 1-888-255-5194
or on the web at http://www.erik-burggraaf.com
On 2012-06-03, at 11:47 PM, Chris Gilland wrote:
okay… I really could use you awls help.
I myself am also a Mac voiceover trainer. I have a student who is
starting from ground one. to the best of my knowledge, I do not believe that
she even knew what voiceover was left alone how to use it until I told her of
its existence. she is doing great, however now we're to the point where I am
trying to help her learn the concept of interacting with certain items. at this
point, she is following behind miserably. I'm not saying that it's her fault,
it's probably the way that I am presenting it to her. I honestly am not sure
how else to make this easier. I have tried literally almost every analogy
underneath the sun. I tried explaining to her that voiceover works very
hierarchically. to her, that made entirely no sense. she somewhat gets the
concept when interacting with tables, but that's about as far as it goes. even
then, I can tell that her concept on the matter is very hazy. I told her also
to think of a bookshelf with three or four ring binders if she wanted to get to
the third binder, and then look at the 15th page within that binder, she would
first have to cross over the first and second binder without even looking
inside of them. then, once at the third binder, she could then open it up, and
then flip to the 15th page. I tried explaining to her that interacting with
items on voiceover is much the same. you have an item where your voiceover
cursor sits. you can either use voice over navigation to pass right over the
items, or you can climb a level down and see what is underneath that item, by
interacting with it. her exact words when I said this work: "okay, now you
really lost me! " I am pretty much out of options. I don't know what else to
tell her to try. I am determined to help her. However, it seems like until we
get past this concept, voiceover is going to be very hard for her to use.
whether she uses keyboard commander, trackpad commander, or for that mind, even
quick nap, she's going to need to know the concept of what it means to
interact. There's just no other way around it. she does not have any learning
disabilities, so it kind of surprises me that all of my other students catch on
to this pretty quickly, yet she is not. I have asked her specifically to tell
me what she does not understand about the concept, however she is not able to
articulate what exactly it is that she does not understand about the concept. I
think a lot of it too, is the fact that she is barely even practicing. I give
her certain exercises to try throughout the day, and every time I do, next time
we get together, I asked her if she practiced, and she very truthfully tells me
know. I have had absolutely nothing to practice with, even though she is fully
aware that I gave her an assignment. I do not know how she ever is going to
learn if she keeps not practicing. I understand her getting frustrated, but
when I am genuinely trying to help her in any way form or shape that I can, I
would expect for her to at least have enough respect to put forth a bit of
effort. I just wonder how much of this is that she really doesn't understand,
versus how much of it is she really seriously is just not trying. I do not want
to be rude to her, however when I see that she is making no progress at all,
and that it's obvious by her admission, that she is not practicing, what the
hell more am I supposed to do? pardon the language, but this is extremely
frustrating. what do you all who are also trainers do when you have students
like this, is simply either one do not get the concept of something, or simply
click do not try and it's very obvious that they are illustrating their lack of
effort. this student has had her state lend her a MacBook for three weeks. This
means she only has that amount of time to learn. We are extremely early in the
three-week process, however, I won't hurt to get the most out of this that she
possibly can. most of the things that we already have learned, she is also
forgetting almost constantly. No, I do not expect for her to learn all of these
things in one night, absolutely not! however, I know that she would be
remembering way more than she is if she were willing to sit down for at least
15 minutes a day in practice. She does not seem to even be given me that much.
what would be the best thing to do? I do not want to be rude to her, but I also
need to let her know I'm very certain terms, but I cannot continue this
training with her, if she is not going to do her part. my responsibility is to
train and be patient, her responsibility is to practice. maybe I am very strict
of a teacher, but I know her potential. I know that she can get this. She just
has to be willing to try. don't get me wrong, I am seeing some effort, just not
very much. when we stepped a bit out of her comfort zone, she refuses to
continue.
any advice on how to handle this from a trainer's perspective would be
most greatly appreciated. I'm completely at a loss as to what else to do.
thanks.
by the way, sorry for all of the typos in this message. I am dictating
this using Siri on my iPhone. frankly in my opinion, she is doing a horrible
job tonight!
Chris.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MacVisionaries" group.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MacVisionaries" group.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MacVisionaries" group.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MacVisionaries" group.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
