Guess that is exactly why I don't add a whitelist rule to Facebook mails and let them rot in Quarantine boxes. If they send to unverified, non-existing users without content, no matter where it is from, they are spam. Especially when all those mails belong to Bot accounts.
To me, double opt-in and following bounce messages must be the way as it has been said before. If I had spare time to list them all, considering ~50% of the spam hitting our spam gateway is commercial grade spam, I would block these verification services to get more spam, train SA and report these unsolicited mails to blacklists. I also do have some unused gmail accounts. One of them constantly receives Indonesian spam. Even legit mail from time to time. I presume along with a person mistyping their email address, it is also common for people mistyping it when they are sending the email. M. Omer GOLGELI --- AS202365 https://as202365.peeringdb.com (https://as202365.peeringdb.com) https://bgp.he.net/AS202365 (https://bgp.he.net/AS202365) January 17, 2020 9:48 AM, "Mark Foster via mailop" <mailop@mailop.org (mailto:mailop@mailop.org?to=%22Mark%20Foster%20via%20mailop%22%20<mailop@mailop.org>)> wrote: Yes, I assume that’s the root of how I got on those mailing lists – someone deciding my email address was theirs. But what’s the difference between that, and spam? In my eyes it’s all unwanted email in my inbox. And it’s not once or twice. It’s hundreds of times. Far from isolated cases. I’ve had to delink my email address from random accounts at services like MySpace (yes, really), Club Penguin (I’m not the target market) and at some point it’s gotta be malicious. Where does one draw the line? I’ve always subscribed to the maxim that if I didn’t opt-in, I’m not gonna opt-out. If you run a service that doesn’t have effective double-opt-in, (or even a ‘click this if it wasn’t you!’ early in the process), this is the risk you run, right? Mark. From: Brandon Long <bl...@google.com (mailto:bl...@google.com)> Sent: Friday, 17 January 2020 5:28 pm To: Mark Foster <blak...@blakjak.net (mailto:blak...@blakjak.net)> Cc: Jay Hennigan <mailop-l...@keycodes.com (mailto:mailop-l...@keycodes.com)>; mailop <mailop@mailop.org (mailto:mailop@mailop.org)> Subject: Re: [mailop] [FEEDBACK] Approach to dealing with List Washing services, industry feedback.. Honestly, that sounds like someone else thinks that's their account... unless I'm misinterpreting what you're saying. I have a couple friends with common name accounts, and they get a lot of mail obviously meant for other people. Anyhoo, that's its own major issue that's complicated by sites with lack of coi, of course. In any case, I fail to see how not using unsubscribe in that case is useful, but to each their own. Brandon On Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 6:49 PM Mark Foster <blak...@blakjak.net (mailto:blak...@blakjak.net)> wrote: I couldn't help but respond to this one... > I'd say if it's even remotely gray mail, and not pure spam, go for the > unsubscribe. On Gmail, we only provide a ui unsub link if the sender > reputation is ok, for example, but arguably anything from a mainstream esp > or company is fine to unsub from. I see a lot of local companies and > non-profits who have bad sending practices and often go to spam that are > completely fine to unsub from, for example, and helps clear out the spam > label to make it easier to find the false positives. > > This is also informed both by the prevalence of spam (something like 90% > of > active users get a spam a week) and the effectiveness of our spam filters. > When I see other folks saying they don't get much spam, only 5 or more > messages a day past their filters... I can understand why they don't want > to get anymore. > I have a gmail account. It's used for 'some' email but not the vast majority - I have my own domains and MTA for that. But the gmail account is used for some mailing lists I use relatively infrequently, and I also use it for other Google services, particular the Calendar. Sure. The amount of spam I receive to gmail is not insignificant. I'm in New Zealand, yet i've somehow managed to book travel, accomodation and rental vehicles all across the USA. I've somehow managed to opt-in to various news services in India. And i'm on alumni distribution lists for several education providers (again mostly in the USA). Every single one of these emails is spam to my mind, because I did not opt-in. I did not publically disclose my email address. I never emailed these organisations. Each one probably has a vaguely legitimate or perhaps even positive sender reputation (in all cases I click 'report as spam' and I get the dialogue that asks whether I want to unsubscribe, which I never do). So it's not about being grey, it really does come down to, did I opt-in in any way, shape or form, or not? That opt-in may include legitimately doing business with that organisation. And if it were my commercial email address, i'd have to view that question in a commercial context.... At work, unsolicited emails from vendors where _others_ in my organisation hold the relationship, and i've never corresponded with them - are still spam in my eyes. Usually overzealous marketing types, and usually corrected via our account management, along with an apology. But to my personal gmail account? Which I use in a very small number of places? As much as a lot of spam _is_ filtered successfully, plenty more isn't, event legit senders frequently don't have effective double-opt-in and from half way around the world, finding an out-of-band way to report/complain/resolve the issue is almost impossible. So the report-as-spam button gets a bit of use. I still like the New Zealand legal definitions of consent, quite a bit of work was done to define the various types of consent and what that means. https://www.dia.govt.nz/Spam-Frequently-Asked-Questions#con (https://www.dia.govt.nz/Spam-Frequently-Asked-Questions#con) Cheers Mark. > I don't believe spammers are really selling clean lists, our experience is > they email everyone they possibly can. Maybe there are some dark gray > spammers who try to use various legitimate delivery techniques to curate > their lists and expand their inboxing, but they seem to mostly want to > work > around spam filter weaknesses instead of trying to be more legit. > > Brandon > >> > _______________________________________________ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org (mailto:mailop@mailop.org) > https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop > (https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop) >
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