Put it this way. I am willing to support the initiative by updating the site(s) I have built as per the conference details provided to me. I can't organize the conference, but I can keep the site updated through the conference if you would like.
If others want to setup a conference site for this conference, that is fine. I don't need to be involved, I am just trying to support. What it comes to is, who has the time and what do they want to use? That is likely the best approach, because I agree with Giles, it is extremely hard to design, build and maintain a web presence as a community. It has always been a struggle because the designer, builder and marketing contributors are usually different people. Let me know if you need my help, as I don't mind supporting with the existing sites. Cheers, Will On Sat., May 22, 2021, 10:32 a.m. Giles Sirett, <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Will – although I don’t mind our company being mentioned (and thank you > for the compliments), I don’t see this as an issue as what orgs our > contributors work for. > > > > This, for me, is an issue of needing to create a basic website, quickly > and easily, preferably without any specialist skills. – I really do > appreciate the work you’ve put in on maintaining this over the years, but I > think we should listen to the people who are trying to organise this event. > > > > From my perspective :for the collab site, this is almost an unnecessary > conversation: it’s a “temporary” site for an annual conference and doesn’t > really need long term maintenance - if somebody wants to setup something > for this years/next years conference and are prepared to do the work, lets > point the A records at whatever they’ve created and let it roll > > > > On a more general point (probably more related to cloudstack.apche.org) : > I do disagree with your view on things like wordpress. Theres a reason that > start-ups, web agencies, marketing teams, etc all default to CMSs like > WordPress: it makes it easy to update content by people WITHOUT specialist > tech skills – the same people that often have ideas on > marketing/presentation/etc. AFAIK, WordPress is virtually de-facto in > those circles > > > > Yes, we’re a tech community, but we’re mainly java programmers and infra > people. AFAIK there isn’t a defacto HTML generator in our circles. > > > > > > Over the years we’ve had a number of more marketing focussed people in the > community: Karen, Ivet, myself, Sunando, Julia and I don’t think any of us > have been able to update cloudstack.apache.org without constantly asking > for help. I’d guess most don’t even know where to start with git > > We should be making our web presence easy for such people to add value IMO > – but we don’t. This, to me, is like those folks trying to tell our > developer community what IDE they have to use (and forcing them to use a > txt editor 😊 ) > > > > I did start a thread on this about 4 years ago (as I was getting > frustrated as to how difficult it was to maintain cloudstack.apache.org). > That thread resulted in lots of people listing their favourite HTML > generator tools/techniques and nobody able to agree. We even had a web > agency prepared to do us a re-design pro bono. > > > > It ran out of steam and the pro-bono agency ran a mile after a few days on > this mailing list. At the same time, there’s folks like Ivet keen to > contribute but finding it really difficult > > > > Your example comparing two different teams just doesn’t add up to me: how > many of Simons team have managed to help maintain our website over the > years? None AFAIK (sorry, Simon et al, not in any way meant as a criticism) > > > > The net result is that the site languishes: often out of date & is > updated infrequently. It is also desperate for a design overhaul IMO > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards > > Giles > > > > > > > > > *From:* Will Stevens <[email protected]> > *Sent:* 22 May 2021 12:57 > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: CloudStack Collaboration Conference > > > > As you wish. I personally hate WordPress, as it becomes a bear to maintain > over time. You also have to find somewhere to host it and someone to > maintain it. I find that static sites built with something like Hugo are > actually easier to maintain, but you are right that some understanding of > html is usually required. Static sites also cater to distributed > contribution more easily. If you use a service like Netlify, for example, > all contribution can be handled through GitHub PRs and the changes can be > live previewed within the pull request. Once merged, the site is > automatically updated. > > > > I am willing to support whatever direction is taken, but my personal > involvement supporting a WordPress implementation will be much more limited > as I don't have the time to dedicate to that sort of a rebuild. > > > > I have a ton of experience with WordPress, Drupal and the like, so I feel > obligated to provide my honest opinion. You are right that minor content > changes are easier for non-techies, but as soon as you want to make any > structural changes or improvements, it becomes highly technical and > extremely difficult. The only way to make a WordPress implementation > successful, in my experience, is to have consistent technical maintenance > by someone with moderate to high technical ability. You also have to > actively maintain contributors within the system. > > > > Given that CloudStack is an open source Apache project, the majority of > the community members are technical users of the platform, so there is a > skewed technical bias within the community participation. I think > ShapeBlue is the obvious exception, because they run a business around > CoudStack, rather than CloudStack just being a piece of a bigger business. > ShapeBlue may have staff with skills capable of maintaining something like > this, and the contextual interest in investing their paid resources time, > but I don't think the majority of the community has the luxury of > dedicating this type of profile to focus on CloudStack. Giles, I hope you > don't mind me mentioning ShapeBlue in this way. You and your team have > remained a constant in the community and your CloudStack focused team has a > much more diverse set of skills than most strong contributors in the > community. For example, if I compare to Simon's team at ENA, they have been > strong contributors for a long time but their team is much more technical > and operations focused, which I think is more common in the CloudStack > community based on my experience. > > > > The reason I raise this is because contribution will naturally wax and > wane within the community based on the different organization's ability to > fund contribution. Given the fact that WordPress requires dedicated > maintenance over time, my concern is that the community will have a much > harder time maintaining it with a rotating group of contributors. > > > > As an individual contributor, my contribution has waxed and waned over the > years and I am not in a good position to represent the needs and > capabilities of the current community. I don't know if what I laid out > here resonates with the group, so please take it with a grain of salt if > you see things differently. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Will > > On Sat., May 22, 2021, 5:18 a.m. Sunando Bhattacharya, < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Will, > > > > I think it's best to set up the site afresh using WordPress as it would be > far easier to administer for a non-tech person. Moreover, WordPress also > has readymade plugins for the virtual event and Webinar platforms, which > will make the event setup much easier. > > > > Want do you think Ivet? > > > Best, > > > > Sunando > > www.indiqus.com > > +91 97111 52299 > > > * Book my time for a call here > <https://t.sidekickopen45.com/s3t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7kv8bWL06W1M6vxk59hl3kW7_k2842Qy2TxW7XLCJP7blRHjN83GqGkDyk8yf8bQQB202?te=W3R5hFj4cm2zwW3F4Fph41QWmBW1JxwY51LDLyRf3zdYTm04&si=5666632314912768&pi=b39b9ed8-71b1-4341-dec1-f2b7cc7261c2> > * > > > > > > On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 12:03 AM Will Stevens <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Hey Ivet, > > It is built using Hugo (https://gohugo.io/), which produces a static > website. > > > > The different site repositories are here: > https://github.com/cloudops/?q=cloudstackcollab > > > > The `cloudstackcollab.org` repo is a simple landing page site which > basically references all of the upcoming CCC events (the subdomain sites). > Then each event gets their own site. The `us.cloudstackcollab.org` repo > has seen the most activity over the years and is likely a good starting > point. > > > > Currently, I am personally hosting the sites, but we could change that. I > could potentially host it via a `gh-pages` branch in the same repo if that > is preferred. We could also move these sites to the apache org if that is > desired, but I suspect there will be some red tape in making that happen. > I am happy to deploy the updates to the current hosting if that is > desirable for the short term anyway. > > > > The easiest way to get started would be to clone one or two of the repos > and get them working locally on your system by setting up Hugo. From > there, we can potentially handle the content / site changes through PRs > which I can then merge and deploy. That is probably the shortest path, but > I happy to accomodate if we would like to approach this differently. > > > > Let me know if/when you have questions. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Will > > > > On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 10:13 AM Ivet Petrova <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Hi Will, > > > > I am volunteering to make updates there if you agree. > > Looks like not WorPress. Is it plain HTML? > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > > On 21 May 2021, at 17:07, Will Stevens <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Yes, I have not been as active in the community as I once was. I am happy > to support the CloudStack Collab website as I have in the past, but I am > also willing to get someone else setup to take over if someone is > interested. > > > > I will try to stay on top of the CCC communications so I am not a > bottleneck for progress. :) > > > > Cheers, > > > > Will > > > > On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 7:43 AM Giles Sirett <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Ivet – I think that is a GREAT idea. I’d love to see it happen > > > > Obviously, you have experience in organising virtual events, so I wont try > to offer any advice on that, but here’s a couple of things you would need > to think about > > > > 1. Permission to use the trademark. > Officially there’s nothing to stop you (or anybody) organising an > event at any time. The only official thing you need to do is ask the PMC > for permission to use the ACS trademark. I’ll happily ask on your behalf > if you like – let me know > 2. CFP > The way we have done this previously is ask for a small panel of > volunteers to act as a “talk selection committee” > Obviously , we then need some way of people actually submitting > proposals. Previously, we’ve used the Apachecon CFP tool – obviously that > wont be available for an event such as this > 3. We have a website for Cloudstack Collab conferences : > http://cloudstackcollab.org/ > That’s managed by Will Stevens/ the cloud-ops guys (although they’re > not so active in the community these days, so maybe somebody else could > take it over ? ) > > > > Happy to help / support this where I can > > > > > > Kind regards > > Giles > > > > > > > > > *From:* Ivet Petrova <[email protected]> > *Sent:* 21 May 2021 11:22 > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* CloudStack Collaboration Conference > > > > Hi all, > > > > We have just a few days to the first CloudStack Virtual event! If still > have registered, now is the time to do is: > > > > https://zoom.us/webinar/register/3216172602723/WN_-zsXhTq_Ttu1Ktz82my06Q > > > > (this is technically a meeting of the European User Group, but as its > virtual anybody can join!) > > > > I am writing to share also something more: > > > > I’ve been thinking about trying to organise a virtual CloudStack > Collaboration Conference in the Autumn. There is a Virtual Apachecon in the > autumn but I think we have missed our chance with that because the CFP is > long closed. > > > > Organising this upcoming event has shown me that it is possible to get > something virtual off the ground, and we’ve had a lot of interest from > people wanting to speak. > > So, my proposal is that we run a Virtual Cloudstack Collab in the Autumn. > I am happy to coordinate this in the community. > > > > Тhe target of such event would be to share ideas, collaborate, bring more > awareness for the technology and to attract new audience - new possible > contributors and new potential users. > > In terms of format, I was thinking was 2-days event/ 4 hours per day with > sessions into streams - one focused on tech and one focused on user stories > and the business side. > > We’d need to run a CFP process – I may need some help with that. > > > > What do people think? > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > > > >
