>>Classes are formed by the introduction of new productive equipment. That is, by the reorganization of the means of life. Almost always, the new class and new classes are tied to and work with the new means of production.<< ^^^^^ CB; So when capitalism introduced electricity and oilbased productive equipment to replace steam and steam engines from the first phase of the industrial revolution, what were the new classes that replaced the bourgeoisie and proletariat that Marx and Engels discuss in _The Manifesto_ ?
MP: This is what is written: 1) Classes are formed by the introduction of new productive equipment. 2) That is, by the reorganization of the means of life. 3) Almost always, the new class and new classes are tied to and work with the new means of production. Electricity and oil based production did in fact change the form of the working class and the form of the bourgeoisie. The proletariat of which Marx writes about is not the same industrial proletariat that I was. This is obvious. The issue was never posed what replaces the proletariat, which is your lawyer type thinking. The proletariat is a section of humanity that has no other means of securing life other than the sale of its labor power. The proletariat of today - March 2006, is a very different kind of worker or proletatiat, than during the time of Marx. Classes formed means the serf becomes a proletariat and then an industrial proletariat and then this industrial proletariat changes its form in relationship to steam and electricity because the instruments of production change. Industrial equipment driven by electricity calls for a different kind of proletariat - worker, than machinery driven by steam. Class are in fact formed by the introduction of new productive equipment. Classes are "replaced" by a new form of class as a lengthy process of transition in the material power of production. Your question is bogus Mr., Lawyer. Your ideology blocks you from the obvious. You speak on a class being replaced to answer the fact that classes rise and fall and are created by introducing new productive forces. Todays productive equipment pushes huge sections of the proletariat away from the means of production because its labor is superfluous to the production of value. Now the industrial bourgeoisie as an industrial bourgeoisie evolved as a new form of class from within bourgeoisie based on and in correspondence with changes in the material power of production. Then along comes a new form of bourgeoisie in the expression of the financial-industrial capitalist signaling the domination of finance over the social agenda of capital. See . . . the Wall Street Imperialist of the post Reconstruction era was a new form of the bourgeoisie. At any rate no one mistakes him for the merchant capitalist. Classes are formed by the introduction of new productive equipment. That is, by the reorganization of the means of life. Almost always, the new class and new classes are tied to and work with the new means of production. The proletariat today is undergoing incredible change because the form of classes change with changes in the means of production. Class is much more than a category of property and by property what is meant is ownership rights over the things that dominate and subjugate people. CB: This is the ABC of Waistline, whose sometimes a "Marxist" and sometimes a Tofflerite. MP: I accept this as your opinion although you have stated several times you have not read his books. May I ask where Toffler states that classes are formed by the introduction of new productive methods and equipment? Mr. Lawyer , , , I accept my Tofflerite whatever, but I ain't no Uncle Tom crying over US plants running away from US national soil and begging the bourgeoisie to build new plants so that American workers can have jobs. See you way of looking at things lead you to your approach and my way of looking at things lead me to my approach. I say win the workers to the cause of communism. You say lets build more plants for American workers and that the most poverty stricken section the workers have to many social problems and the workers with their hands on the basic means of production are truly revolutionary. The clincher is that you have no credentials other than being a fast talking lawyer. Tragic Melvin P. _______________________________________________ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list [email protected] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
