Ralph Dumain wrote the following: -------------------- I am puzzled as to how the question of reductionism is related to the question of liberation theology. Perhaps these were intended as separate questions.
Re reductionism: note that the current location of my Emergence blog is: http://www.autodidactproject.org/blog/emergence/ If you read my introduction, you will see the main purpose of this blog: http://autodidactproject.org/blog/emergence/index.php/about/ I am attempting to track the divergent interpretations of emergence and their ideological and social motivations, some of which are quiter suspect. Does this at all relate to liberation theology? Perhaps there are links. For example, the obscurantist mystical-religious emergentism that comprises one strand of emergentism relates to the crisis of bourgeois society and its reversion to irrationalism. This strand of emergentism is financed in the millions of dollars by the reactionary Templeton Foundation. There have been linkages, affrimative linkages, between Marxism and religionism prior to the current epoch in which "liberation theology" was labeled as a trend. I will only single out one that points to one source of mystification: “Love Is the Fulfilling of the Law” by Hewlett Johnson, Dean of Canterbury (http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/HJ-SP1.html) This is a chapter from the Red Dean Johnson's 1940 pro-Stalinist apologia The Soviet Power. Note his sophistical argument allying dialectical materialism with Christianity and opposing both to materialism. Presumably the latter is inter alia implicitly condemned as reductionist while diamat is consonant with a religious point of view. This, however, is not what we think of in the past decades as liberation theology. Formally, there is a trend in Latin America known as liberation theology. But of course there are various liberation theologies of various individuals, religions, dominations, and populations. Cornel West's "prophetic pragmatism" is one example, perhaps not as obnoxious as the black liberation theology that developed in the late '60s, but just as dishonest and retrograde in its intellectual content. On the Marxist side, attachment to liberation theology is either opportunistic or self-deceiving. Radical religionists attach themselves to various desired aspects of Marxism, but amalgamating class analysis with the obscurantist metaphysics of their religions, suitably sanitized to render them revolutionary. Aside from philosophical falsification, there is the deeper issue of the relation of social development to forms of consciousness, suitably repressed by both Stalinism and liberation theology. The deeper issue of dialectic is not simply one of materialism vs idealism, but the dialectical relation between consciousness and the state of society. -----Original Message----- From: "farmela...@juno.com" Sent: Dec 23, 2008 6:50 AM To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] specific help requested Concerning Marxism and theology, while I am no expert on liberation theology, I am quite aware that many leading 20th century theologians took an interest in old Chuck (along with Feuerbach, Nietzsche and Freud), including such figures as Karl Barth, Reinhold Niebhur, and Paul Tillich, to name just a few names. The old social democrat, Michael Harrington, was pretty good on this in his book, *The Politics at God's Funeral*. Mark Lindley and I discussed Harrington in our essay, "Six Prominent American Freethinkers," which is available online at: http://www.monthlyreview.org/mrzine/fl161208.html. One of our later posters. Ralph Dumain, has discussed the issues of reductionism and emergence on a special blog at: http://www.autodidactproject.org/my/emergence-blog.html Jim Farmelant -- Susan F Dane wrote: Dear Fellow-Subscribers: I've recently subscribed and am receiving a variety articles. However I'm looking for something specific pertaining to the following: I am currently beginning a study of 'liberation theology'. Marx and his 'dialectic' keep coming up in a way presupposing the reader has some understanding of what this is. I'm pretty clueless and need some help trying to understand what an atheist is doing (albeit not by his own direct actions) in the realm of theology. There have been some indications that this is somehow compatible with or a natural consequence of the confidence human kind has been led to place in 'science'... I'm not seeing a clear connection. I am lacking in the presuppositions to jump into the conversation with much understanding. Anyone care to respond to the issue of "Marxism and 'reductionism'"? Any help is appreciated. Many thanks, Susan Dane -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Dumain Sent: Dec 23, 2008 8:45 AM To: "marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu" Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] specific help requested I am puzzled as to how the question of reductionism is related to the question of liberation theology. Perhaps these were intended as separate questions. Re reductionism: note that the current location of my Emergence blog is: http://www.autodidactproject.org/blog/emergence/ If you read my introduction, you will see the main purpose of this blog: http://autodidactproject.org/blog/emergence/index.php/about/ I am attempting to track the divergent interpretations of emergence and their ideological and social motivations, some of which are quiter suspect. Does this at all relate to liberation theology? Perhaps there are links. For example, the obscurantist mystical-religious emergentism that comprises one strand of emergentism relates to the crisis of bourgeois society and its reversion to irrationalism. This strand of emergentism is financed in the millions of dollars by the reactionary Templeton Foundation. There have been linkages, affrimative linkages, between Marxism and religionism prior to the current epoch in which "liberation theology" was labeled as a trend. I will only single out one that points to one source of mystification: “Love Is the Fulfilling of the Law” by Hewlett Johnson, Dean of Canterbury This is a chapter from the Red Dean Johnson's 1940 pro-Stalinist apologia The Soviet Power. Note his sophistical argument allying dialectical materialism with Christianity and opposing both to materialism. Presumably the latter is inter alia implicitly condemned as reductionist while diamat is consonant with a religious point of view. This, however, is not what we think of in the past decades as liberation theology. Formally, there is a trend in Latin America known as liberation theology. But of course there are various liberation theologies of various individuals, religions, dominations, and populations. Cornel West's "prophetic pragmatism" is one example, perhaps not as obnoxious as the black liberation theology that developed in the late '60s, but just as dishonest and retrograde in its intellectual content. On the Marxist side, attachment to liberation theology is either opportunistic or self-deceiving. Radical religionists attach themselves to various desired aspects of Marxism, but amalgamating class analysis with the obscurantist metaphysics of their religions, suitably sanitized to render them revolutionary. Aside from philosophical falsification, there is the deeper issue of the relation of social development to forms of consciousness, suitably repressed by both Stalinism and liberation theology. The deeper issue of dialectic is not simply one of materialism vs idealism, but the dialectical relation between consciousness and the state of society. -----Original Message----- From: "farmela...@juno.com" Sent: Dec 23, 2008 6:50 AM To: marxism-thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] specific help requested Concerning Marxism and theology, while I am no expert on liberation theology, I am quite aware that many leading 20th century theologians took an interest in old Chuck (along with Feuerbach, Nietzsche and Freud), including such figures as Karl Barth, Reinhold Niebhur, and Paul Tillich, to name just a few names. The old social democrat, Michael Harrington, was pretty good on this in his book, *The Politics at God's Funeral*. Mark Lindley and I discussed Harrington in our essay, "Six Prominent American Freethinkers," which is available online at: http://www.monthlyreview.org/mrzine/fl161208.html. One of our later posters. Ralph Dumain, has discussed the issues of reductionism and emergence on a special blog at: http://www.autodidactproject.org/my/emergence-blog.html Jim Farmelant -- Susan F Dane wrote: Dear Fellow-Subscribers: I've recently subscribed and am receiving a variety articles. However I'm looking for something specific pertaining to the following: I am currently beginning a study of 'liberation theology'. Marx and his 'dialectic' keep coming up in a way presupposing the reader has some understanding of what this is. I'm pretty clueless and need some help trying to understand what an atheist is doing (albeit not by his own direct actions) in the realm of theology. There have been some indications that this is somehow compatible with or a natural consequence of the confidence human kind has been led to place in 'science'... I'm not seeing a clear connection. I am lacking in the presuppositions to jump into the conversation with much understanding. Anyone care to respond to the issue of "Marxism and 'reductionism'"? Any help is appreciated. Many thanks, Susan Dane ____________________________________________________________ Criminal Lawyers - Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw3dDDJbaxKMaGJYM5Dys7pTexIZlAFbgQtZJho5P4kQz6JtX/ _______________________________________________ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
