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A critique of the superficial notion of the Soviet system as "state capitalist" is found in Trotsky and Meszaros. Simply follow my references. Both James and Dunayevskaya promulgated the "state capitalism" "theory" as did T.Cliff of course. I do not have the time to do that for you, to carry you or spoonfeed you. "The Israeli Declaration of Independence is the most eloquent written statement of this belief" (SR) Go and say that to the millions of Palestinians living in forced exile in the refugee camps of the Arab world. The Zionist state is a state which defends very specific class and geostrategic interests. For you to ape one of its documents is simply a confirmation of your CLASS position. It does not "defend the Jewish people" but has created a ghetto for them in the Middle East in the interests of the aforesaid interests. Where is the so-called "citizenship" of the millions of exiled Palestinians? In the desert sands. This so-called "Declaration of Independence" was a declarationn of war on the Palestininan people who did not receive the "favour" of its "citizenship". On the basis of the "belief that Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people", the homeland of the English people and all their descendants around the world is large swathes of Europe from which they have migrated to the British Isles. If we applied this extremely reactionary (fascistic) conception to peoples around the globe, we would all be claiming land which our ancestors lived on thousands of years ago. Research tends to suggest that the ancestors of the English, Iranians, Indians, Greeks, etc, arose in a proto Indo-European homeland on the Russian steppe thousands of years ago. Can we simply expel the local inhabitants today (Russians, Tatars and Ukrainians) and claim it as "our homeland". It is the most reactionary conception. Completely anti-communist to its very core. The Nazi ideologists had a similar outlook. They spoke of returning to "their" "Ayran" homeland in central Asia. The problem with the area which Zionism labels "Israel" is that it has been Palestine since Hellenistic and Roman times.The Jewish communities at these times were Palestinians, many of whom, in the Polis and not in the Chora, were actually hellenised and later latinised when they moved around the empire. It is a Zionist myth that it was simply a "Jewish homeland". The Jews were, for many centuries, a nomadic tribal people. For thousands of years, this region has been a rich and diverse area of different cultures and religions. It has only been the bastardised state of "Israel" since 1948 when its creation was backed by the imperialist powers in theirv own geostrategic interests. If you fail to see that the very existence of the Zionist state actually "fosters bigotry towards the Jews", then I think perhaps you are the one in need of a certain degree of kindness. Have you actually studied the history of the Zionist enclave since 1948? Have you actually witnessed over the decades the hostility towards Zionism and the FALSE EQUATING of "Zionist" with "Jew" which actually feeds prejudice and anti-semitism? And you have the audacity and temerity to accuse me of being "nuts"!! When I was teaching in the Arab world I met many people (Arabs) who actually admired Hitler. I always took the trouble to explain that some but not all Jews are Zionists and all Zionists are not necessarily Jews. One can be a anti-Zionist Jew. The "Kibbutz movement" - as you affectionately like to refer to it - was a land grab. Its basic conception in practice was "a land without a people for a people without a land" which is a fascistic conception similar to the conception of Lebensraum. Land stolen and the local people expelled from their lands and homes. It was only a "land without a people" after they were forced out at gunpoint. You obviously believe all the myths created by Zionism that people left voluntarily with handshakes for Begin, Shamir, Sharon, the Irgun and Stern Gang. Palestine was not an empty land but was a rich, living ancient culture amongst which were living small communities of Jewish people. The Palestinian culture was not just "another Arab culture" but was a distinct, rich, culture thousands of years old. You believe and seek to perpetuate the myths of Zionism. Where in the writings of Ber Borochov is there any evidence of socialist internationalism, class-based and transcending cultural differences without recourse to pseudo-nationalistic doctrine? The attempt to synthesise Marx with Zionist Nationalism was a particular example of the general incompatibility of Marx and Nationalism. This is why Borochov was expelled from the Marxist movement in Russia. He was a divisive influence amongst the proletariat. He then veered off into Zionist nationalism, Paole Zion, etc, which the Jewish socialist Bund rejected at the turn of the century. Borochov tried to opportunistically adapt Marx to serve the needs of Zionist nationalism and, in the process, effectively left Marx behind. Borochov himself, towards the end of his life, became a self-confessed Social Democrat which was an admission that his attempted synthesis had failed and had revealed the truth of his doctrine as being essentially Zionist rather than socialist. "A viable two state solution would include evacuation of all the Jewish settlers and returning control of all the natural resources in the Occupied Territories to the Palestinians in the WB/GZ. That is a crucial part of the BDS agenda. The West Bank and Gaza can be linked around Israel through roads built on strips of land on the Sinai and though those parts of Jordan adjacent to its border with Israel. As part of a regional settlement, these areas would be leased to Palestine by Egypt and Jordan so that Palestine would not be landlocked. The construction needed to take place there would make a sizable dent in the high Palestinian unemployment rate." (SR) Holy Moses, what a geopolitical dog's dinner! Travelling from Hebron to Gaza, I think I would have to take my compass with me for fear of ending up in the Negev. What's wrong with a unitary secular state with full democratic rights for all regardless of ethnicity, religion, etc? Or is it threatening your beloved "democratic Zionism"? Your Zionist Bantustan? It is quite obvious that you are drinking in the last chance saloon of Zionism. Further up the page you are writing of a 'democratic love-in' with the Palestinians now you're telling them to fuck off into the Sinai and into other national territories. Sheldon. Just do yourself and the rest of us a favour. Drop the Zionism. It's reactionary and repulsive. And all the baggage which goes with it. And just pick up the Marx. It's all you need. Even in Palestine. http://shaunpmay.wordpress.com http://spmay.wordpress.com Take it easy (favourite motto of Engels) Doubt everything (favourite motto of Marx) Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution? Groucho Marx 'Sir, if you were my husband, I would put poison in your coffee.' Nancy Astor. 'Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it.' Winston Churchill. Blenheim Palace, 1912 ________________________________________________ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
