OK-- socialists workers who happen to be Jewish in Israel, cross the "national" line, and struggle for a revolution, dismantling of the Israeli settler state, the right of return, the removal of Israeli real estate holdings, settlement, etc. in occupied territories, social, collective organization of the means of production, and most importantly, access to water with Palestinians, and these same workers want to be able to go to a synagogue, pray, keep Kosher, and have Hebrew taught alongside Arabic in public schools? Done. Once all that other stuff is accomplished, that part is a piece of cake.
And for there to be a "secular, democratic" political system, that system necessarily will be socialist. If, however, you're referring to the the type of deal struck by de Klerk, Botha with Mandela, then preserving "cultural identity" of the minority is a non-issue at best, a joke at worst, as the economic and social power of the minority has been preserved. On another note, while I appreciate Dennis' sentiment when he defines "self-determination" as when the oppressed nation makes decision concerning its status without feeling the need.....," I believe the argument is at core, inadequate and faulty. First, what Marvin was getting at was a tactical accommodation and whether such accommodate was necessary to accomplish the revolutionary goal. Secondly, there is no such thing, as you all know is IMO, as an oppressed nation by and for itself. The "national" appearance, manifestation, moment, is simply the preliminary expression of the essential class struggle that is at the heart of the matter. There are oppressed peoples, but even there and then, emancipation depends on class-conscious struggle. Thirdly, even at their most "respectful," "no interference" times, the Bolsheviks after conquering power had no trouble whatsoever absolutely intervening in the struggles of "oppressed nations," and dictating to militants in those countries what decisions and actions should be taken. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marv Gandall" <marvgand...@videotron.ca> To: "David Schanoes" <sartes...@earthlink.net> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [Marxism] self determination for oppressors ________________________________________________ YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
