Come on-- there is no principle of self-determination for a Jewish nation, since 1) no such nation exists 2) what does exist, a Zionist state, exists as an overseer, a foreman, a cop in the Middle East.
Whatever the Bolshevik notion of self-determination was an was not, the impetus, the material driving force for that notion was not some abstract tenet of a "national-ism" but rather the material reality that self-determination for the oppressed, the segregated, was inseparable from class struggle, and the overthrow of capitalism. That that self-determination was in practice converted into something else-- justification for working class subordination to local bourgeoisie is part and parcel of the retreat, and defeat, of the struggle to overthrow capitalism. If the argument at the heart of uneven and combined development, at the heart of Trostky's permanent revolution is accurate-- that a national, democratic, liberal, bourgeois revolution can no longer accomplish, achieve either the historical marks of such previous revolutions, cannot emancipate the means of production through the imposition of the social relations of capital, the corollary argument-- that such "national" revolutions can only survive, achieve a undemocratic, illiberal, but still capitalist life through the defeat of the working class is not argument at all, but an historic fact. Dennis is quite write to point out that there is no such thing as self-determination for the Afrikaners in South Africa, for the Israelis in the Middle East, just as the French in Algeria were not entitled to, nor struggling for self-determination. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marv Gandall" <marvgand...@videotron.ca> To: "David Schanoes" <sartes...@earthlink.net> Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [Marxism] self determination for oppressors ________________________________________________ YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
